Calling all IJN Kuma-class (球磨), Nagara-class (長良) & Sendai-class (川内) fans

[Dan K]

These are all very intriguing possibilities. What I find perplexing is that I've yet to find them on other CLs, or LC plans.

[Angeliccypher]

Aoshima also has them molded into the side of the bridge structure at the main deck level on the 1/350 Nagara.

[blacman]

yes...

and what do you think folks. in 1942 Tama where under camo. Was this camo also aplied on linoleum deck?
thank you

Greg

[Dan K]

Was this camo also aplied on linoleum deck?

only white in early 1942 (photos credit Nihon no Gunkan)

[blacman]

thanks Dan!

[Quincy]

This question concerns the IJN Oi. Did she have an external degaussing cable fitted to her hull like her sister Kitakami ? Particularly when she was fitted as a transport late 42/43 period?

Any help would be appreciated.


Bob Pink.

[Dan K]

There is no photo documentation (available) of Oi in that fit but, the practice was to add the degaussing cable to all warships just prior to the opening of hostilities. I would think it the same as Kitakami's.

[Quincy]

Okay! I will add it on. No big deal for me. Thanks Dan.



Bob Pink.

[MatthewB]

I have been looking at these classes long history, and the differences between them.

The two are built off a similar hull, being almost identical.

I would like to get more information on this class, as they seem to depart significantly from the post-Y?bari Light Cruisers.

I cannot find much information online, and it will be three more days before I can afford to buy any references, so I thought I would start amassing information here.

I have found a blueprint of her in her 1942 fit:



But I would like to find images of her sisters for the same period (1942 - 1943), for the early Battles with the English, Dutch, and Australians, and for the Solomons/Guadalcanal Campaign.

Particularly, I am interested in what happened with the Sendai and the Isuzu. I have read in a Japanese publication that the Isuzu replaced the Sendai during the Naval Battle(s) of Guadalcanal, so I would like to find out what is going on there, and what the Isuzu looked like prior to being fitted-out as an AA Cruiser (Models seem to be plentiful as the AA Cruiser, but none as she was prior to that in 1942).

The rear decking of the Isuzu seems to be on the same side as on the Nagara (as opposed to ships of the Nagara-class whose rear decking was toward the opposite side), meaning that a Nagara kit would be a good start for the Isuzu, and then getting the superstructure and conning tower of the Isuzu from another kit (or scratch building it), and doing a conversion.

This is something I am doing now (as I have the Nagara kits - two older Fujimi kits as she was in 1941 - at least that is what it says), and I would like to get the Isuzu build alongside the Nagara.


MB

edit:

I found some images of the Isuzu from 1934 and 1943.

I know that it had upgrades in 1939 and 1942/43 that upgraded the Torpedoes to 24" Long-Lance torpedoes, and then again to 16 of them (quad launchers instead of double). as well as upgrading the AA suit in 42/43 to remove two of the 5.5" guns, replacing the #7 position with a HA 5-inch guns, and a triple 12.5cm AA gun in the #5 position, as well as removing the airplane catapult.

I will edit this again when I locate the specifics.

[Mike C]

You might look here: http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm

The TROM pages will tell you where particular ships were at any given time.

You'll find the IJN cruiser classes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... anese_Navy

That page also includes their final dispositions.

HTH

[maxim]

The Nagara kit by Tamiya shows her in 1944 with a 5 in twin and two quad torpedo tubes. The forward torpedo well was plated in. Also Abukuma shows her after conversion with two quad torpedo tubes and without the forward torpedo well, but Abukuma was converted earlier like that and hat anyway a different bow shape.

You need for Isuzu in 1942 either Natori or Kinu. I do not know either of these kits to be able to recommend, which one is more suitable.

[Dan K]

Yubari was a one ship class, meant to test several new design features that were incorporated into the heavy cruiser designs.

At the start of the war, Nagara and Isuzu are essentially identical except for, perhaps, the compass bridge deck roof. Nagara's had a slight peak to it, not sure if the same is true for Isuzu, or if it was flat.

The most expedient means to create a 1942 Isuzu is to combine a Kinu hull with a Nagara bridge, substituting a 4.5m LA rangefinder for the raday array atop Nagar.. Alternatively, since the basic forward torpedo well is already existant on the Nagara kit, you could square off the well, add some compartments and aftermarket twin tubes, then replace the 1/4 hull plating concavities to either side, front and back.

[MatthewB]

You might look here: http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm

The TROM pages will tell you where particular ships were at any given time.

You'll find the IJN cruiser classes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... anese_Navy

That page also includes their final dispositions.

HTH

I just discovered that I did not subscribe to this thread (remedied with this post).

Thanks for the link. It is now bookmarked and helps with many of the upgrades.

Although it does not give specific images of the changes to the bridge and conning tower that occurred at these times.

From the look of the image I posted on the '34 - '43 Isuzu, it looks like the Conning Tower remained essentially unchanged through '42/'43, and not until it was turned into a AA Cruiser did the Conning Tower get any real changes.

I am trying to see how different the bridge was from the Nagara, as it looks as I might be able to just build a new Bridge and alter the Conning Tower to do an Isuzu for the Guadalcanal and Solomons Campaign. I thought of buying a Tamiya or Fujimi Isuzu and just using the bridge, but the later bridge is too different from the earlier. And, it is boxy enough that building a new one out of blank Styrene should pose little problems. The plan-view is mostly absent, but the photos show that it could be no wider than any other Nagara-class, and that it was literally a box (due to the hanger it used to contain). The lower projection tapers slightly (which used to hold the flying-off platform, but which now contains 25mm AA guns (looking for the number - the Nagara has a single four-gun mount at that position).

But the links you have provided helped considerably.

MB

[MatthewB]

Yubari was a one ship class, meant to test several new design features that were incorporated into the heavy cruiser designs.

At the start of the war, Nagara and Isuzu are essentially identical except for, perhaps, the compass bridge deck roof. Nagara's had a slight peak to it, not sure if the same is true for Isuzu, or if it was flat.

The most expedient means to create a 1942 Isuzu is to combine a Kinu hull with a Nagara bridge, substituting a 4.5m LA rangefinder for the raday array atop Nagar.. Alternatively, since the basic forward torpedo well is already existant on the Nagara kit, you could square off the well, add some compartments and aftermarket twin tubes, then replace the 1/4 hull plating concavities to either side, front and back.

The notes from the link Mike C posted say that the Isuzu kept the Wells for the foreward Torpedo tubes until after her '43 refit:



This photo could be wrong, but the thread from another forum where it came from was discussing when the Isuzu lost its forward tubes, and most agreed it was in the '44 refit to an AA Cruiser, which seemed to be the same time the other ships lost their forward tubes.

I just found a book on Scribd (Whitley, M.J. Cruisers of World War Two, an International Encyclopedia. Arms and Armor Press, 1995.) that has a lot of detail on the subject.

The books says that they were originally armed with the LL Torpedoes from construction (and that they were designed 2' wider in beam than the Kuma with the 24" LL Torpedoes in mind). The Nagara in '32, Isuzu in '32 - '33, Natori in '31 - '33, Kinu in '33 - '34, Yura in '36, and Abukuma not known (but before '39) had the rear catapult installed.

And then in '43 the Armament was changed from seven 5.5" (7x1), and two 3.1" (2x1); and 6 MGs to five 5.5" (5x1) two 5" DP (1x2); and twenty-two 25mm and two 12.7mm MGs (the 22 25mm guns being in 1x4, 2x3, & 6x2).

And in June '44 the 25mm fit was increased to 36 (additional 1x4, & 2x3).

However, all of that is academic to me for a year or so (until I start to build the ships for Leyte Gulf after I have finished with the Solomons).

The images I have for the Isuzu show it to have a flat roof. So getting a Nagara Bridge and adding a flat roof should do the trick.

And I can make a 4.5m Rangefinder if I cannot find one (it is just a few pieces of styrene rod and shims of thin styrene).

The Conning towers looks to be slightly different from the Nagara though.

Also, I cannot find any kits of the Nagara with the Radar Array (save for the Tamiya '44 version). I have two Fujimi or Skywave Nagaras (I cannot recall which, I don't have their boxes next to me). One of them is half complete for the Nagara itself.

MB

edit:

Question about the prop-guards:

Did the Nagara-class have prop-guards for both sets of props?

Also, looking at blueprints of the Isuzu and the Kinu... The Bridge is almost identical (the Director on the roof needs to be moved about 6' forward from the position on the Kinu, and the Conning Tower needs to be re-built, but that is just a few pieces of styrene.

And, looking at the '42 Kinu, it seems to be identical to the Isuzu in terms of Armament.

I can't seem to locate where the 1x2 3" gun mount was located, though. Was this removed in '39?

MB

[maxim]

See the two postings before your last two ones

I would not recommend the old Fujimi kits of the Nagara class. They are terrible. The Tamiya kits are much better, even though they are also not up to modern standards (except Abukuma).

[Dan K]

I meant to write using Tamiya kits, including the Nagara '44 kit. It can be backdated with some scratch-building and accessory parts, including the LA director and twin tubes. I probably have a hundred spares. Agree with Maxim; the original Fujimi kits are just terrible.

[MatthewB]

I meant to write using Tamiya kits, including the Nagara '44 kit. It can be backdated with some scratch-building and accessory parts, including the LA director and twin tubes. I probably have a hundred spares. Agree with Maim; the original Fujimi kits are just terrible.

I have discovered that the Old Fujimi kits are terrible. The bridge is just a plastic block. I am doing some work on them to add the Compass Deck windows, and making a few jigs to drill in some portholes.

I also see there are some vents on the forward bridge structure.... I'll need to build those.

The thing is.... I already have these. And if I need to, rather than buying a new Kinu, I can just build a new bridge from scratch for the Isuzu (since looking at plans, the bridges of these two ships seem to be identical save for the location of the director being slightly forward on the Isuzu).

The Windows are not terribly hard to install in the Nagara (just file a groove in the forward face that is 1.3mm wide, and then extend it back ~ 2.75mm on each side at 1.3mm wide, and then the rest of the way back at 1.5mm wide, and then use .02mm styrene square rods (which I have aplenty) to insert the uprights for the Windows (It looks like there are 4 windows on each side in the 1.5mm wide sections, and then 2 each side in the 1.3mm wide sections. And 13 windows across the front). I will need to find a piece of brass to make a jig to hold the window uprights at the correct spacing.

MB

[maxim]

The two 3 in guns (8 cm, actually 76.2 mm) were removed before the war and replaced with 25 mm twins.

[MatthewB]

The two 3 in guns (8 cm, actually 76.2 mm) were removed before the war and replaced with 25 mm twins.

Excellent to know. I thought that I read something to that effect.

Why do they have the ship models with Quad 13.2mm MGs on the Bridge?

I have a set of Nano Dread/Fine Molds Type 93 MGs (which come in Single, Double, and Quad) that I was thinking of adding to these ships (Since the plastic looks so freakishly out of proportion with these, now that I have seen the scale versions).

I pretty much will probably be spending a fortune to replace all of the AA Guns on all of the ships I plan to keep with after-market guns after buying these.

But I can still find nothing about where this gun came from.

They are listed as having "Six MGs". Is that one quad and two singles?

MB

[Dan K]

FineMolds (FM) Nanodread set #15 contains finely rendered 13mm mounts in single, double, and quad configuration. Even thinner than the 25mm, as they should be.