Calling all Yamato (大和) and Musashi (武蔵) fans

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marengtech
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by marengtech »

baseballbrat wrote:Need some help guys........

I have a friend building a 1:200 Nishimo Yamato (brand new kit in bags) from 30 years ago. Can someone please tell me the Detail Parts or Detail Kits out now that he can use to build a rather accurate Ten-ichi-Go version? I am trying to get him to join here, so you Nishimo builders can give him some good advise! Thanks for you help!!! Jim :thumbs_up_1:

He can purchase accurate main turrets from L'Arsenal:
http://www.larsenal.com/catalogue/index ... 2411444228

They are suppose to be releasing the secondary turrets sometime this fall.

Cheers
Gerry
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Bill Gormley
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by Bill Gormley »

Question: Was the ship's name on the stern of the Yamato in the form of three characters?

I'm currently building Tamiya's new kit with a Pontos Model deck. Decal #1 on the Tamiya sheet is three letters (which I assume are the ship's name) ... but for the life of me, I can't find in the instructions where they're supposed to go. Likewise, the three letters are provided by Pontos Model - as gold letters and white dry transfers. Again, it isn't entirely clear where they're supposed to go. Can anyone clarify?
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bucketfoot-al
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by bucketfoot-al »

Bill Gormley wrote:Question: Was the ship's name on the stern of the Yamato in the form of three characters?

Answer: YES
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baseballbrat
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by baseballbrat »

Bill Gormley wrote:Question: Was the ship's name on the stern of the Yamato in the form of three characters?
Again, it isn't entirely clear where they're supposed to go. Can anyone clarify?
On the stern.

The characters say YA MA TO in hiragana (Japanese simple characters).

I don't recall seeing any photos of this being painted on the ship stern though. To my knowledge the 1:10 Yamato Hiroba doesn't have this shown.

Does anyone have a photo of this?
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bucketfoot-al
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by bucketfoot-al »

baseballbrat wrote:
Bill Gormley wrote:Question: Was the ship's name on the stern of the Yamato in the form of three characters?
Again, it isn't entirely clear where they're supposed to go. Can anyone clarify?
On the stern.

The characters say YA MA TO in hiragana (Japanese simple characters).

I don't recall seeing any photos of this being painted on the ship stern though. To my knowledge the 1:10 Yamato Hiroba doesn't have this shown.

Does anyone have a photo of this?
Baseballbrat - I thought that the symbols were in Kanji, because the ones I have seen made for ship models (Nichimo for one) do not resemble the modern hiragana YA-MA-TO symbols at all. Anyone have more background on this?
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baseballbrat
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by baseballbrat »

Vlad,

Kanji is old chinese characters with many strokes. Hiragana is simple japanese words that originate in japan.

Here's what Yamato looks like:

Kanji: ??

Hiragana: ??? (YA: ? MA: ? TO: ?

I am guessing that all the IJN names are in Hiragana. Maybe because Kanji characters have many meanings for the same character and might be misinterpreted by some. Hiragana characters have only one meaning, thus have to be used in groups to make up words.

Reference Skulski's book towards the very back just past the fold out, look for H 14/3 (Full Stern View) the name is written this way..... ??? : Yamato in Hiragana written from right to left. The Pontus Deck I have has the decal sheet written this way. Is this the way you are seeing this?

It's very odd seeing hiragana written this way. It's mainly read Left to Right. Maybe for naval use it's the opposite. I will inquire with my Japanese friend.

I will have to research further. Most of the books titles are in Kanji (??)

Jim
Last edited by baseballbrat on Wed Nov 12, 2014 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bucketfoot-al
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by bucketfoot-al »

Bligh me, I've had the "Yamato" Hiragana/Kanji characters backwards all these years! Well, thanks for clearing that up. To the (un)educated Western eye, the Kanji symbols are more graceful and easier to recognize.

I think what threw me was reading that hiragana is now the conventional writing style, so I assumed that the name of the 2005 film, (?????? 'Otoko-tachi no Yamato') must have been in hiragana. Now I guess it turns out that its in Kanji.

Right?
bucketfoot-al
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baseballbrat
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by baseballbrat »

bucketfoot-al wrote:Bligh me, I've had the "Yamato" Hiragana/Kanji characters backwards all these years! Well, thanks for clearing that up. To the (un)educated Western eye, the Kanji symbols are more graceful and easier to recognize.

I think what threw me was reading that hiragana is now the conventional writing style, so I assumed that the name of the 2005 film, (?????? 'Otoko-tachi no Yamato') must have been in hiragana. Now I guess it turns out that its in Kanji.

Right?
Vlad,

That's Kanji and hiragana together. Most wording is this way in Japan. The Title "Otoku (?=Man) Tachi (??=We) no (?=Subjecct) Yamato (??) is The "Men of Yamato" in English.

Just so you know when looking at Japanese the character (?) is pronounced "no" which makes it the subject.

Example: ???? Otoko (Man) Tachi (Many) no becomes "Men". The word "tachi" makes the word before it many or we instead of one. The word "Otoko" is really read "Toko=Man, but when you put a "O" in front it becomes a a word of honor and more polite way of talking. You will see this in words all the time. Just so you know, when talking Japanese in most cases you use the more polite way to talking especially if you don't know the person by using the "O" method. Only when you are aquatinted with someone do you cut the "O" out. When using names you honor the person by using the word "San" after their name. Your name would be Vlad-san by strangers and by friends would be Vlad-kun. "San" being used a majority of the time. As for me they call me Jimu (Jim). It's complicated.

As a side note: Kanji Characters are symbols with a meaning. Each section of the character means something and when put together forms a word or words. With 2000+ Kanji, you have to study for many years to master enough to be able to read modern sentences. Writing them is completely different. You're taught to write them correctly and each stroke in order. That's what they call Calligraphy. If you use a computer, you type hiragana and it give you a choice to convert it to kanji, but you need to know what kanji to use due to it gives you multiple choices.

All this when put together will form a sentence or a thought to convey what you are reading. We talked about this here awhile back when trying to translate technical manuals or logs. These kanji characters are hard to understand, and the older writings are even more difficult. Over time in Japan the hiragana is used more often or written over the Kanji, so the younger ones can understand. IMO kanji is becoming a lost art as the country progresses thru the years. It's still being taught in school, but I don't think it will ever been the way it was pre WWII.

Let's all face it, the world and it's countries are changing and like here, everything is progressing to make things easier ether good or bad, so all we can do is try to keep up.
Last edited by baseballbrat on Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:50 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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baseballbrat
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by baseballbrat »

hiragana-stroke-chart.png
Here's a simple Japanese chart....
The alphabet is read starting on the right corner, read down and across to the left. Go up and down as you go to the left. (up down left up down etc......
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Bill Gormley
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by Bill Gormley »

Thanks for the answers and background info. I looked up photos of the Kure museum model and didn't see the name at the stern. Was it there only during certain time periods? Anyone know why the Pontos Model set provides both gold and white letters?
Reference Skulski's book towards the very back just past the fold out, look for H 14/3 (Full Stern View) the name is written this way..... ??? : Yamato in Hiragana written from right to left. The Pontus Deck I have has the decal sheet written this way. Is this the way you are seeing this?

It's very odd seeing hiragana written this way. It's mainly read Left to Right. Maybe for naval use it's the opposite. I will inquire with my Japanese friend.
I'm glad I asked ... I don't want to spend a year making the model just to affix the name incorrectly!
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baseballbrat
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by baseballbrat »

Anyone interested in learning Kanji? I have a 1000+ page dictionary in pdf I can send you through a free transfer service for you to download. All I need is for you to send me a PM with your email address. I would like to upload this as a group send to save myself valuable time. Please let me know!!!

As you all know, most of your books are written in Kanji and simple Japanese. If you want to be a Yamato expert, you must learn the language because all the good stuff has not been translated yet. All I can say is this can't be mastered overnight, but years of study. The book I have offered is the key to success in bettering understanding what all the funny looking characters are. It's a system once understood, will help you figure out words describing items we all ask about here on the forum.

I will be collecting your addresses for one week, then send the file.

Jim
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baseballbrat
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by baseballbrat »

After talking with my Japanese friend today, the hiragana characters on the stern of Yamato written backwards ??? is the correct way for sea vessels. To this date all boat names are written this way for some reason. More information to come later, but my guess is that all characters were written in ancient Japan this way. If you look at the characters they are much different then the ones used today. It could be a tradition they are following to write it this way. I will write a followup on this subject when additional information is available. As a note: somewhere in a book I have somewhere I saw this drawn out on one of the pages. Now I just need to find it.
kraveen
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by kraveen »

Does gold medal models still make a 1/250 extra details set for the arii 1/250 kit? I need to purchase another of these sets but i can't figure out if they still make themes
RandomNoob
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by RandomNoob »

About the name on the stern..
I also recall IJN destroyers having large writings of their name on their sides, but they are painted over during wartime. Maybe its the same with the Yamato? Maybe it initially has the name on the stern, but over time it is painted over?
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by kraveen »

Never mind about the extra details parts for the 1/250 arii kit I just realized I used the 1/200 scale extra details set
RandomNoob
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by RandomNoob »

Guys, I have got some interesting stuff for you.
It seems that Fujimi is planning to release a new mold of the Yamato.
the 3D drawings I have seen is amazing, but they have one big problem.

It is designed as a snap fit assembly kit, so if you want to replace stuff with PE, prepare to meet with problems..

You can see the 3D drawings here:
http://mokehana.blog34.fc2.com/blog-entry-654.html

However, one thing makes me curious. In this particular picture, there is a pair of 25mm single mounts in the aft concrete deck (Yellow colored parts near the seaplanes). I wonder about the validity of this placement.
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baseballbrat
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by baseballbrat »

This kit seems to be a developmental project that Fujimi is thinking about starting with multicolor parts. Still seems to be too early to determine if this ever hits the market. Looks interesting, but I would just buy it to say I have one in my stash then to attempt to build it up to make it look more accurate. As for PE parts, I rather doubt any manufacture will put money into extra detail parts for this due to Fujimi seems to want to market this as a snap together project and an easy build for the targeted customer they are after. Let's see what happens and we might be surprised!!!
kraveen
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by kraveen »

I am working on the cable reels on my musashi kit and I was wondering what color to make them? They look like a yellow white color in my classic warships yamato book. Also I just use thread and wrap it around the reels is there anything else that would look more detailed than thread?
kraveen
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by kraveen »

The kit is 1/250 scale
RandomNoob
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Re: Calling all IJN Yamato & Musashi fans

Post by RandomNoob »

I personally prefer to paint them the same color as my blastbags.
So, yeah, tan or yellowish white seems good to me. I think the Yamato museum uses similar colors.

As for the cable reels, you can see this forum thread about it. They also discussed how to make thicker reels (which may be useful for a kit in 250 scale).

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=155635&hilit=cable
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