Calling all Independence-class (CVL-22) fans

[Tracy White]

-What was the configuration of the catapults for October 1944?

Single catapult, port side, parallel to centerline.

-Any other changes I need to do to the 1/700 Dragon kit to represent October 1944 better?

I don't have the kit, but based on the instructions here and this review I'd say you might want to:
* Step 3 - Leave off parts E9 and E10 if you're going to remove the starboard catapult
* Step 4 - YES to parts C2 & C3, no to E4 & E6, E3, E11, and E13. The two mounts forward of the island on the starboard side (K25) should be twin 40MM mounts B16 and not single 20MMs.
* Step 5 - go with the quad 40MM mounts as the single 5" was only used on CVL-22 on her shakedown.
* scrap the photo-etched island parts (MB2 & MB5 as mostly divorced from reality.
* Add a 20mm gallery with two guns in between the second and third stack, where part E-7 is on step 9. There's a good shot of this gallery on her Navsource page.
* Use the PE radar MA10 instead of MA19 or A32

It's not exhaustive, but it's what I had time for tonight

[hypno7]

Thanks Tracy!

So, for the island, based on your previous posts, it should look more like the CVL-22 island, right? Could I use the island of the 1/350 Independence kit as a base to scratchbuild one in 1/700? (or use the one in the kit, the part is included).

For the mast, according to your post on page 9 (Sun Sep 25, 2011) for the San Jacinto mast, would it be more accurate to use the Independence mast? (It is included in the kit and can be seen -here-), or what do you think about the mast included in the Belleau Wood kit?

This picture -here- doesn't help me that much for October 1944 right?(since it is captioned as "showing alterations 18 January 1945) but are the alterations more about the antennae or about the structure of the mast? Also, would the island be the same after alterations?

I think the island (and mast) included in this kit is for when the Belleau Wood was in French service. (I am just guessing here)

Thank you Tracy for your time, I really appreciate your help.

[John G. Lambert]

Are there any pictures out there that show the USS Independence CVL22 with the number(s) 22
on the flightdeck in 1943? I haven't been able to find any on the net ( I spent about an hour looking at web sites) and CW's USS Independence book doesn't have any pictures showing numbers on the flightdeck either. I don't have John G. Lambert's Independence book,so I can't check that source at that time.

Just noticed this post. I am looking at a rather clear photo of the flight deck (page 61 in my book) dated by the Navy as taken "Mar 12 1943" and there are no numbers on the flight deck in that photo.
John Lambert

[John G. Lambert]

-What was the configuration of the catapults for October 1944?

Single catapult, port side, parallel to centerline.

Correction, I thought this post was for the USS Independence CVL-22. I had not noticed the previous page and the single cat question was for her sister carrier. I'll leave it here for those interested. The CVL-22 had single catapult from launching thru EARLY 1944! By October 1944 she then had two catapults.
Launched and entering combat, she had a single catapult as noted. The ship suffered a torpedo hit off Tarawa on 20 November 1943. While in the yards at Hunters Point the first half of 1944, with extensive damage repaired, the CVL-22 reemerged to return to the war tasked as our nation's first dedicated night aircraft carrier. While in Hunters Point, she received a second catapult (the first with two cats in her class), a new paint scheme, and a new additional antenna mast was erected between her number 3 & 4 stacks (the only CVL of the 9 sisters to have this antenna). John Lambert

-Any other changes I need to do to the 1/700 Dragon kit to represent October 1944 better?

I don't have the kit, but based on the instructions here and this review I'd say you might want to:
* Step 3 - Leave off parts E9 and E10 if you're going to remove the starboard catapult
* Step 4 - YES to parts C2 & C3, no to E4 & E6, E3, E11, and E13. The two mounts forward of the island on the starboard side (K25) should be twin 40MM mounts B16 and not single 20MMs.
* Step 5 - go with the quad 40MM mounts as the single 5" was only used on CVL-22 on her shakedown.
* scrap the photo-etched island parts (MB2 & MB5 as mostly divorced from reality.
* Add a 20mm gallery with two guns in between the second and third stack, where part E-7 is on step 9. There's a good shot of this gallery on her Navsource page.
* Use the PE radar MA10 instead of MA19 or A32

It's not exhaustive, but it's what I had time for tonight

[Tracy White]

I just noted this post. The single catapult observation is ONLY correct for launching thru EARLY 1944!

Hey John - My response was in regards to a question about Belleau Wood and not Independence. I suppose I should have left the ship's name in my post.....

[Mike W]

I need to thin my stash a little so I can buy the likes of Aoshima's HMS Ark Royal and Trumpy's forthcoming HMS Valiant/Queen Elizabeth , plus HMS Belfast.

I have Dragon's Independence and Bellau Wood in my stash and I have no real need for both. AS we all know, both kits contain the same plastic parts but Bellau Wood has more extensive etch in the kit, including a different bridge and the important (for me anyway) funnel supports.

My question is can you make any of the Independence class from the Bellau Wood kit, whether you use the etch bridge or not?

Just as a supplementary question. Prior to owning both kits I wasn't aware there was any major differences to the island in all the ships. So does the etch bridge represent post war modifications at all?

thanks
Mike

[Haijun watcher]

Greg, here you go.

USMC 2Lt shouting: "Close-Arm-Interval- Dress Centerrrrr......"



Platoon Sgt echoing: "Close-Arm Interval dress centerrrrrr..."

[task force 58]

Would Independence or Princeton be better for building San Jacinto in October of 1944?

[Tracy White]

In 350th scale you want the Princeton kit.

[task force 58]

Thanks Tracy, how many mods would be required to make the October 44 Princeton to the October 44 San Jacinto?

[Tracy White]

I can't speak authoritatively as I don't have much in the way of shots past January '44. DANFS doesn't show her making it back to the US until the war's end, so it would be small details.

[Rick E Davis]

Here is an interesting view of USS INDEPENDENCE (CVL-22) I came across at NARA in October 2014, showing an overhead view of her bridge as it appeared when she completed. Overhead views with this much detail are rare. I'm not sure, but I suspect this was taken from a bridge as she pasted under it. It could have been taken from a crane in the yard, I just don't know. This view isn't at Navsource.

[Tracy White]

Nice shot Rick! Wish we'd had that when we were working on the CVL-22 kit with Dragon; that would have made getting the details in that area right a lot easier!

[John G. Lambert]

Nice shot Rick! Wish we'd had that when we were working on the CVL-22 kit with Dragon; that would have made getting the details in that area right a lot easier!

This photo is in my book on page 30 (Enhanced Edition), and is one of many of the island. http://www.amazon.com/USS-Independence- ... 983886911/

CVL22history@conwaycorp.net

[Rick E Davis]

Thanks John, I don't have your book and actually don't have as much interest in carriers, primarily only in destroyers and pre-WWII navy. But, I will scan just about any OVERHEAD views I find while going through 80-G.

Do you have a firm location for this photo?

[hypno7]

Thank you gentlemen for the information.

Going on with my build of the CVL-24, I have some questions (again... sorry)

CV-25 in MS 33 / 7a:
2 x 20mm on stern above quad 40mm
4 x 20mm port and starboard (two each side) outboard of rear elevator
4 x 20mm port side, opposite of #3 stack
2 x 20mm starboard side in between #2 and #3 stacks
6 x 20mm port & starboard (three each side) just ahead of the forward catwalk Mk 51 director tub.
2 x 20mm just underneath forward edge of flight deck, behind bow quad 40mm.
Total = 20

CVL-30 San Jacinto in MS 33 / 7a:
Same as CVL-25, except that the two 20mms between the exhaust stacks were further outboard, so that the airplane parking platform was continuous. Quickest photo I can find online is this one of CVL-23 Princeton which had the same arrangement.

Would this information apply to the CV-24 on October 1944? (except to what is noted below)

The [6 x 20mm port & starboard (three each side) just ahead of the forward catwalk Mk 51 director tub] would not apply to the Belleau Wood according to Tracy's answer to my previous question right?

Are the extra two (starboard and port) just aft of the stack apply too?

That would make 16 guns.

After reviewing this thread again, I removed the shields on the quad 40mm Bofors.

Thank you very much in advance!

[Tracy White]

OK, so a little breakdown on Belleau Wood's fit history. She hit the Pacific in July of 1943 and served in forward areas until her first overhaul in July of 1943, essentially. She again served in forward areas until the end of October, at which point she was damaged by a Kamikaze and went back to the states for repair until January of 1945. This was her last overhaul of the war, which gives us three different configurations to consider.

Would this information apply to the CV-24 on October 1944? (except to what is noted below)

The [6 x 20mm port & starboard (three each side) just ahead of the forward catwalk Mk 51 director tub] would not apply to the Belleau Wood according to Tracy's answer to my previous question right?

None of the photos I have show these three-gun galleries ever being fitted, so I'm 95% confident you can leave them off.

Are the extra two (starboard and port) just aft of the stack apply too?

I can't answer that definitively. We have photos of her on Navsource that show the first and last configuration clearly enough, but the period following the July 1944 overhaul is not represented. I have some undated photos of her at Pearl in Dazzle that I believe is from that time, but her starboard side is up against a dock and the photos are from the water, so the amidships gun gallery is a mystery as to when it was removed. I have various random textual documents on work done to CVLs I've come across, but none on CVL-24, unfortunately.

[hypno7]

Thank you very much Tracy!

About the starboard gun just aft of the stack, JUST found this picture online (I haven't seen it before on my searches)

http://i.imgur.com/T8BTdrn.jpg

unless it is something different?

Now just the mystery of the port side. I will keep on searching.

Thanks again for the help!

[SliderCRO]

Hi guys!
I'm new here ,active, few Years I just lurk here
Im 48, live in Croatia, Europe, and recently I've start CVL-22 in 1:72, in dazzle camouflage, measure 33/3d
Thanks for all pics and answers here, this topic is already saved on my hard disc

So, I've been looking everywhere, but can't find any picture from gun director for bow quad and structure below it( red circle)
I ca't figure out as follows see picture:)



1.what is this structure below gun director tube, ( purpose, details? )- could it be ammo storage?
2.what are those holes and what's inside? ( yellow circle)
3. From where is crew acces to gun director -ladder outside, inside, doors, hatch??

and beside this, the blue stripped and colored parts - decks - I think it's deck blue, right??
Any help will be very aprreciated.
If isnt allowed to post pictures here of models, let me know so I will remove them
At the bottom is my Belleau Wood few months ago, just coverd with primer, upside down- those large hole is to acomodate rear lift mechanism)

PS sorry for my bad english, I've learn German in school

Best regards
TIA
Mario

[Tracy White]

Im 48, live in Croatia, Europe, and recently I've start CVL-22 in 1:72, in dazzle camouflage, measure 33/3d

Hi Mario. That is a big project!

1.what is this structure below gun director tube, ( purpose, details? )- could it be ammo storage?

The area below the director tube was just a structure built up to elevate it so that the director could see over the guns. There was no ammo stored there. There are two ammo boxes that are mounted on the outside of the railings instead (see photo below).

2.what are those holes and what's inside? ( yellow circle)

The holes are to allow access to below the director (to access bolts for removal, etc.) and possibly to make the structure lighter. I have seen holes for such purpose on other ships, but have not seen any notes in the plans that state why they were there.

3. From where is crew acces to gun director -ladder outside, inside, doors, hatch??

A Ladder on the back of the tub

and beside this, the blue stripped and colored parts - decks - I think it's deck blue, right??

Correct - 20B Deck Blue

If isnt allowed to post pictures here of models, let me know so I will remove them

[/quote]

Photos of models during building go in the Picture Post - Works in Progress section so that we can keep these pages from getting too large and unusable.