Calling all Queen Elizabeth-class (1914-1947) fans

[MartinJQuinn]

Can anyone advise if the Pontos upgrade set will fit the Trumpeter Warspite kit (1/350) specifically the deck, since I'm reasonably sure the masts/barrels etc will fit without to much trouble

cheers

It's custom fit for the Academy kit.

[conordavid]

No doubt this has been debated before, but any information on building the Trumpeter 1918 1/700 HMS Queen Elizabeth kit as HMS Valiant of similar vintage would be appreciated. Only QE seemed to retain the foremast on the spotting top by then. The small platform on the tripod mast directly under the spotting top also appears to have been unique to QE.

[Haijun watcher]

For those who don't pay attention to the "Upcoming Ship kit releases" thread in the main section of the forum, you should know that Trumpeter is releasing a 1/700 HMS Malaya in her 1943 configuration.

Upcoming ship kits

[Quincy]

A 1/700 Trumpeter Valiant 1939 is on her way in early 2015 to our stashes!




Bob Pink.

[krgf15]

probably a shot in the dark, but does anyone happen to have a spare quarterdeck piece for the 1/700 Barham? I seem to have misplaced it....

[steviecee]

part number?

[krgf15]

It doesnt have a part number. It just says rear deck.

[Mike W]

Now that people are receiving their Malaya kits, the big question is what are the camouflage colours?

The instructions don't give the RN colour names, all you can tell is that it's some kind of Dark, Medium and Light Grey camouflage on the vertical surfaces and dark grey/natural wood for the decks.

Raven's RN camouflage book only shows the camouflage pattern but not the colours.

Hopefully Tom's Modelworks will release the WEM etch set for the QE's that was in the pipeline, especially given the Valiant and Queen Elizabeth will be here later in the year.

thanks
Mike

[Mike W]

Mike, colors are 507a, 507c, b5 & ms3.

Forgive my ignorance but I don't have MS3, what sort of colour is that?. I take it the 507A was for the metal decks?

thanks
Mike

[MartinJQuinn]

You can get an idea of it here, which is a scan of the back cover of Alan Raven's Warship Perspectives, Camouflage Volume 1 Royal Navy 1939-1941

[Mike W]

You can get an idea of it here, which is a scan of the back cover of Alan Raven's Warship Perspectives, Camouflage Volume 1 Royal Navy 1939-1941

It's Ok, I've found a tin of WEM MS3, so it's all good now. However, B5 and MS3 don't have much contrast between them in terms of light and dark but in Black + White photos, there is a very dark colour used in the camouflage. My initial thoughts were possibly APC507A, B and C, or perhaps the dark grey was MS1 and the Medium colour something like B5.

Any further thoughts?

thanks
Mike

[dick]

Mike, colors are 507a, 507c, b5 & ms3.

What is the reference for this please?

[Mike W]

how many colors are you seeing as supposed to be 4 as I posted above for 1943?

3 for the vertical surfaces, plus need to know the steel deck colour. Raven's RN Camouflage book shows a 3 colour scheme on the vertical surfaces but doesn't specify the colours.

thanks
Mike

[PaulC]

However, B5 and MS3 don't have much contrast between them in terms of light and dark but in Black + White photos, there is a very dark colour used in the camouflage. My initial thoughts were possibly APC507A, B and C, or perhaps the dark grey was MS1 and the Medium colour something like B5.

B5 (bluish) and MS3 (greenish) were also used together on Renown along with MS1 and AP507C - so nothing unusual there.

I would think MS1 might be the more likely candidate for the dark colour in 1943, rather than AP507A - though I think Belfast wore the latter in her December '43 scheme.. so its not impossible that 507A was it....

Paul

[Mike W]

However, B5 and MS3 don't have much contrast between them in terms of light and dark but in Black + White photos, there is a very dark colour used in the camouflage. My initial thoughts were possibly APC507A, B and C, or perhaps the dark grey was MS1 and the Medium colour something like B5.

B5 (bluish) and MS3 (greenish) were also used together on Renown along with MS1 and AP507C - so nothing unusual there.

I would think MS1 might be the more likely candidate for the dark colour in 1943, rather than AP507A - though I think Belfast wore the latter in her December '43 scheme.. so its not impossible that 507A was it....

Paul

I know, I'm building Renown now but Raven's book shows 3 colours and there isn't enough contrast in darkness between MS3 and B5. I suspect it might be MS1 for the dark colour, B5 for the Medium colour and APC507C for the light colour, with the decks in APC507A but it would be good if someone had more definite info before everyone starts building there kits!

thanks
Mike

[dick]

I know, I'm building Renown now but Raven's book shows 3 colours and there isn't enough contrast in darkness between MS3 and B5. I suspect it might be MS1 for the dark colour, B5 for the Medium colour and APC507C for the light colour, with the decks in APC507A but it would be good if someone had more definite info before everyone starts building there kits!

thanks
Mike

Careful analysis of b&w photos shows 4 colour tones in Malaya's 1943-44 camouflage scheme.

Four colours is confirmed in two contemporary colour paintings by two noted wartime artists: one by Norman Wilkinson (he who invented RN WW1 dazzle schemes) and probably painted in 1943 and another by Stephen Bone (who actually worked in the Camouflage Directorate at Leamington Spa until 1943 before becoming a full-time war artist) painted in 1944, one picture in the IWM collection the other in the NMM collection.

You can see what they suggest and neither suggests the green-grey MS3.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings ... aya-176114

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings ... n-tow-7321

[Mike W]

I can see from that a Light Grey, Dark Grey and a Blue very clearly, possibly MS1, APC507C and B5? I can also see what looks like a Medium Grey, possibly Greenish Grey, any suggestions on this colour?

thanks
Mike

[PaulC]

Looking at the colour contrasts in the photo on this site:

http://www.world-war.co.uk/bb/malaya.php3

I think MS3 is the most likely candidate for that intermediate colour. It may have a green tinge, but still has more of a grey character IMHO, hence its representation in the paintings.

AP507B is very close to B5, MS2 is too dark, MS4 is too light (closer to AP507C) and MS4a is too green and light. B6 is too light a blue to give much contrast in B/W, B15 and B20 are too dark. When I look at my 1942 Renown, the contrast between the B5, MS3 and 507C looks very much like the contrast in the above photo of Malaya.

Trumpeter's scheme (from what I can see from the website) calls for flat black, extra dark sea grey, medium (something) grey and light grey. (Anyone with the kit who can say for sure....Ady??)

I'll stick my neck out and say my choice for the colours is therefore MS1, B5, MS3 and AP507C.

Paul

[dick]

I think MS3 is the most likely candidate for that intermediate colour. It may have a green tinge, but still has more of a grey character IMHO, hence its representation in the paintings.

AP507B is very close to B5, MS2 is too dark, MS4 is too light (closer to AP507C) and MS4a is too green and light. B6 is too light a blue to give much contrast in B/W...
Paul

I�m sorry but evidence from other paintings by both artists shows that they were perfectly capable of painting MS3 its correct green-grey hue and that if it was present that is what they painted not some other grey:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings ... e-19176121

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings ... 944-176118

http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings ... ney-172636

I�m not sure about some of your ideas about what the RN WW2 colours looked like. MS4A (reflection factor 55%) for example was a light grey not a green grey and is a good candidate for the lightest of the 4 shades on Malaya. If so, the next darkest shade could well be MS4 (reflection factor 32%) which was noticeably darker than 507C (reflection factor 45%). The only other candidate would be B6 (reflection factor 30%) which was not a light blue but a blue grey. However what you see in the paintings is a very good match to MS4 in contemporary paint chips. The darkest colour is clearly MS1 (reflection factor 6%) as we all agree. The slight puzzle is the second darkest shade which we all agree must be B5 but which Norman has painted a troubling shade of blue!

[Mike W]

Going back to the painting of Malaya and assuming the darkest colour is MS1 and the Blue is B5, I still think the lightest colour is APC507C but I'm still stuck on the other colour. Looking at the painting and looking and the paints I have, it looks a bit like G45 or MS4. Both are darker than 507C but without too much green in them and would give enough of a contrast between 507c and B5 to be noticeable.

Any thoughts?

thanks
Mike