The pointer and trainer sight hoods on turret three should possibly be a bit more rounded and the covers for the optics more square than currently. Will see if I have any photos of these.
One would think having the set of plans that was all that was required. Some things are discovered the hard way!
Measurements for all the hoods would be nice to have. The main Iowa plans omit them and have the notation "To be supplied by the government".
The 16" turrets and their components are drawn to scale in TFD MISSOURI Plan Book. Usually, the drawings are 1/8" = 1'-0" unless noted otherwise.
I'm not at my shop, but if needed I can measure the drawings from my book, copy them w/dimensions, and post them next week.
Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
Note the width of the sliding shutter for the turret rangefinder, also note the roundedness of the pointer/trainer hoods and the shape of the hinged cover.
Hope this helps, have some better photos somewhere!
BB62vet wrote:The 16" turrets and their components are drawn to scale in TFD MISSOURI Plan Book. Usually, the drawings are 1/8" = 1'-0" unless noted otherwise.
I'm not at my shop, but if needed I can measure the drawings from my book, copy them w/dimensions, and post them next week.
The scans I have (from my printed copy) don't show much detail. For example, no indication of the undercuts inside the shutter opening.
I was able to calculate the facet sizes for the turrets using the measurements on the Iowa planes. They give 3 XYZ coordinates for the forward side facet and the X coordinate for the last corner.
They 2 XYZ coordinates for the side rear facet. Combined with the the others I can get all for points.
Apparently, the just specified the points with nice round inch measurements.
I don't have any measurement of the gunport. I can estimate them. The NARA plans appear to show the gunports being larger at the top than at the bottom with a transition point. That would make sense because when the guns are elevated to 45, a wide part of the barrel goes through the port than when lowered to -2. However, I have never noticed a transition point in pictures.
The plans say "Hoods to be provided by the government" and only show rough outlines.
Here is a shot from NEW JERSEY when I was there in 2001 (Turret 3):
I don't know why the shutter and its flange are brass and unpainted, but Turret 2 is also like that:
Hope these help the cause. I'm still not sure what the real question is here. But, I will put dimensions on TFD's drawing of these parts of the turret next week and post.
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
I don't believe there is any taper where the barrels protrude through the embrasures as this section of barrel recoils into the trunion sleve. The bucklers appear to have parallel sides. There exist some shipyard photos of the turrets minus the bucklers ( bloomers...).
Can anyone point me to clear pre-modernization photo of support structure under broadside mk-37 directors? I am trying to add the diagonal support braces that extended from the sides of support structure underneath the my-37 director to the underside of the searchlight and AA director tubs just under the broadside my-37.
Specifically I am trying to determine:
Is there one or two diagonal support brace beams below the AA director tub?
Do the brace beams under the searchlight tub connect directly to the support structure, or does it connect through the little catwalk behind the support structure at the 04 level?
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.
By Pre-modernization, what do you mean? WWII, Korean War, or 50's? While there wasn't much difference, there was some change and all 4 ships differed. Three time periods, 4 ships -
Clarify your build - time frame and ship, and we can go from there.
Thanks,
Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
Fliger747 wrote:I don't believe there is any taper where the barrels protrude through the embrasures as this section of barrel recoils into the trunion sleve. The bucklers appear to have parallel sides. There exist some shipyard photos of the turrets minus the bucklers ( bloomers...).
It's not a tape but rather a discontinuity. You can see from the side view here that when the gun is at the 45 position, a thicker part protrudes than when it is in the -2 position.
The top view shows the gunport being narrower at the bottom than at the top.
A (looong) while ago, I found a booklet of plans for IIRC the USS Wisconsin, that went deck by deck and basically noted everything. It might even have denoted the changes planned for the Class Improvement Program (replacement of the 40 mm guns with 3-inch twins, and upgrading the directors), but those might have been a different set.
Anyway, I've lost the link and couldn't relocate the files through google, so I figured I'd ask here - I think I may have found the link originally in this thread but there are now 130 pages or so to go through to find it...
Anyone know what I'm looking for and where to get it again? Oh, and while I'm at it, anything at all similar for the North Carolina and South Dakota classes, which I remember were not on the site I originally found the Wisconsin plans.
As usual interesting details. The "to be provided" note is interesting as the ship contractors were for all four ships, The USN @Brooklyn and Philadelphia Navy yards. It may be that the drawings are so labeled as those were Bu Ord items and the drawings were C&R (BuShips?)
By Pre-modernization, what do you mean? WWII, Korean War, or 50's? While there wasn't much difference, there was some change and all 4 ships differed. Three time periods, 4 ships -
Clarify your build - time frame and ship, and we can go from there.
Thanks,
Hank
Hank
I am looking at the Missouri in mid 1945 comfiguration.
Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.
I will try to find a picture of NEW JERSEY's 16" turret face without the Blast Bag (during her '67-'68 overhaaul) which hopefully would show the opening to shed light on your question. No guarantees....
Chuck,
OK, late '45 period - MISSOURI - I'll see what I can find. My initial answer to your question is that there were TWO tubular angled supports under the side MK. 37 Director bases from the deck below. But, we shall see....
Later,
Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
Well, it appears SpyderDan has provided the needed photo of the turret face. It also appears the face openings are a straight oval, w/o any difference in width from top to bottom. Internally, that may be another matter.
SpyderDan - question - which ship is this and what date do you have for the photo? I have a general idea, but would like a sure-fire answer.
Thanks,
Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
BB62vet wrote:SpyderDan - question - which ship is this and what date do you have for the photo? I have a general idea, but would like a sure-fire answer.
I believe that is Missouri, being re-gunned in the 50s. Source was Mr. Landgraff, and he would be the one for sure-fire clarification.
Looking at turret #2, I can see a step in at the bottom of the gun opening. I think it may be the blast bag fastening ring that could have thrown you off BB62vet. I can't see it on turret #1, but that could be because of shadows or the higher elevation of the guns possibly. Just my .02 cents.
