Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[Cliffy B]

Alrighty gun tub nuts, I climbed inside the stbd tub again and took some more photos and measurements. Enjoy!!!

The openings for the drains are 8 1/8" long and 1 1/2" high. Note that they used to be wider indicative of the weld lines.

Got photos of the openings, the scuppers, and the vertical I-beam for the helos.

Case sensitive password as always is: Battleship

http://s647.photobucket.com/user/Cliffy ... 13/Fantail

[BB62vet]

Cliffy B,

Much appreciate the efforts & photos - thanks!

Hank

[RandyM]

Cliffy:

GREAT PHOTOS - thanks! Even in seemingly innocuous photos you can find a little history - for example you can clearly see the welded-over openings for the spent casing chutes: I wonder how many people who served on Wisconsin in later years knew what those were for?

Thank you from a Chief Tubnut (which is sort of funny when viewed in reverse...).

[bigjimslade]

Alrighty gun tub nuts, I climbed inside the stbd tub again and took some more photos and measurements. Enjoy!!!

Thanks,

It looks like the cutdown of the top, outer edge of the tub is shaped differently from the NJ and Iowa.

[Cliffy B]

No offense guys but Mods can we please prune this thread?

[BB62vet]

Getting back on topic...

I found an interesting photo of the Mk. 49 F.C. Director on board NEW JERSEY, circa 1943 -

I won't be modeling this, but I know others that are building the 1940's era IOWA class and this might be of some help.

[bigjimslade]

Getting back on topic...

I won't be modeling this, but I know others that are building the 1940's era IOWA class and this might be of some help.

Does anyone know how effective a 1942 vintage radar fire control system was?

[BB62vet]

Bigjimslade wrote:

Does anyone know how effective a 1942 vintage radar fire control system was?

Judging from the number of Kamikazes that actually got thru to their targets, I would conclude that the radars were fairly reliable. But, this leaves a lot of questions unanswered as to the particular type of systems you are talking about (both type of mount and assoc. F.C. equipment). Also, ship type, crew training, just all sorts of statistics that would have to be examined for a true answer. I'm not sure what the Mk. 49 radar was associated with (40mm, 20mm, 1.1" - ??).

[Fliger747]

I expect that a first integration of radar into fire control was for range and determining range over range to achieve a predicted closure rate which could be integrated with the manually derived bearing and elevation change rates for some sort of time of flight prediction. Early radar, especially, was maybe an order of magnitude more accurate in range than bearing. Many applications such as with the VT fuze were range only. Early radar (assisted) gunsights for aircraft mostly relieved the pilot of the estimation of range and bullet stream drop.

Cheers: T

[bigjimslade]

I read something in Google books describing the Mk. 49 (and 50) director[s] as a failure. Nonetheless, you have to break some eggs to make an omelet and it is amazing that there were radar controlled gun directors in operation within 2 years of the invention of radar.

The whole Iowa class is a marvel of engineering given the time it was created.

[Fliger747]

At home I have a (I believe) a Bu Ord weapons manual about an inch thick from the early fifties and it discusses in gory detail the setup and theory and operation of both main battery director systems and lighter weapons including AA. As it does give some historical background, especially with regard to radar, I would expect there would be something on the directors for the ubiquitous 40 mm. if I get home sometime in the future I will be sure to snag it. The increasing speed of "targets" was always problematical as they had grown beyond what was anticipated just a few years before when a few .50 cal's were a BB's AA suite.

Another interesting topic!

T

[chuck]

Does friedman's Naval Anti-Aircraft Guns and Gunnery say anything about it?

My copy is in storage with the movers, so I have no ready access to it.

[Fliger747]

A favorite Kamakaze tactic was to approach from dead astern, low, which blocked many weapons. The little boys were the most vulnerable and easy enough to overwhelm with a massed attack on the peripherys. However sinking pickets did not drive the big blue fleet away. I don't think anyone pre war could have imagined the size of the third-fifth fleet in 1945.

T

[BB62vet]

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION RE: USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) - 1967-9 VIETNAM ERA.

I need any detailed information regarding the configuration of the 03 Level open area between the stacks (fore/aft) and forward of the center 40mm tubs which was enclosed. See plan below for yellowed area. This is NOT how this area looked in 1967-9. Any photos, plans, etc. would be helpful. NOTE: the 1967 NEW JERSEY Booklet of Gen. Plans does not show that area AS BUILT, only a gen. arrangement.

Any of you West Coast IOWA guys or East Coast BIG JAY fans that may have info, please reply!!!

Thanks,

Hank

[chuck]

From these two picture, it looks like a deckhouse was built to connect the two middle 40mm mount foundations:

http://navsource.org/archives/01/041/016289n.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0162062.jpg

[James M]

The New Jersey had that deck house installed when she was refitted at the end of WWII.
It looks like all they did for her Vietnam refit is remove the splinter sheild from the upper 40mm tub.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016209m.jpg

[Cliffy B]

So what's in there then? Radar equipment rooms for those new Mk-57s?

[RandyM]

This photo was taken one late afternoon during construction before the radio equipment was installed...

[BB62vet]

Gentlemen, I appreciate your replies, but perhaps THIS photo will give more of an updated view of the area in question -

This shows my model as of Nov 14 - I've done quite a bit more since then, but this shows the additional Mk. 56 FC director platform (or as Chuck calls it, a deckhouse).

The area I've highlighted in red is what I'm having questions about. The several holes in that deck area are for WWII radio antenna foundations per the Trumpeter kit. This area was modified during Korea on all 4 ships to include gas mask lockers and/or radio/radar equipment storage and differed on each ship. The Booklet of General Plans for MISSOURI (1950) and WISCONSIN (1956) give a general view of how those two ships were laid out (proposed).

When the Mk. 56 Fire Control Equipment was added to NEW JERSEY in the mid-50's the central open area (fore/aft) between the 40mm tubs did not change. It was only during the 67-68 refit that the Mk. 56 directors were removed and a new athwartship platform added in place of the center 40mm tubs on either side and the Mk. 56 directors then reinstalled on that platform. The remaining central open deck area is once again, the question at hand.

The problem is that after going through ALL my reference mat'l, I haven't found one close up, detailed photo of that particular area of the 03 Level that shows the equipment layout as it was in 1968-69. Only a couple photos are vague, at best, and are overhead shots from a distance.

Cliffy B - the spaces below the rocket launchers were used for Zuni storage/maintenance, etc. and the area below the Mk. 56 FC Platform was FC radar equipment rooms and shops.

[RandyM]

Hey Hank... it appears that the entire area around the 40mm triple towers is resin in your photo... is this correct?