Calling all British pre-dreadnought fans

[Suvoroff]

I'm working on some plans for a small-scale model of HMS Majestic, but all the plans I can find in books show the 6" gun casemate covers closed. Some photographs in my books show the covers open, but none are very close and it is hard to nuke out the detail. Does anyone out there have access to any more detailed plans, or a good sharp close in photo of one of these casemates?

Yours
James D. Gray

[peppe]

some images from a russian book on majestic classe
ciao peppe

[Haijun watcher]

Wow, I'm surprised that there isn't much feedback on RN pre-dreadnoughts on this thread, considering how many pre-dreadnought kits were released by Combrig.

Still, I have one question, does anyone know what were the exact differences between HMS Mars and her sister HMS Majestic?

I'm mulling buying a kit of HMS Mars that I found on Ebay, but am thinking of building her as Majestic during the Dardanelles/Gallipoli naval bombardment in March 1915.

It says the following on the wiki entry for HMS Mars:

Mars had a new design in which the bridge was mounted around the base of the foremast behind the conning tower to prevent a battle-damaged bridge from collapsing around the tower. Mars and six of her sisters had pear-shaped barbettes and fixed loading positions for the main guns, although her sisters Caesar and Illustrious had circular barbettes and all-around loading for their main guns,[7] which established the pattern for future classes.[8]

So would it be worth it to buy a discounted Mars kit and try to convert her to Majestic, considering the difference above? Or should I just straight up buy a Majestic for full retail price?

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Wow, I'm surprised that there isn't much feedback on RN pre-dreadnoughts on this thread, considering how many pre-dreadnought kits were released by Combrig.

Hi Haijun Watcher,

I'm considering in earnest to convert Hasegawa's 1:350 Mikasa into a Royal Navy Formidable class battleship. Not an easy task though, in detail there are many differences between the two. The best reference I found so far is Burt's book on RN battleships 1889-1904, although not entirely complete it gives a very good impression what's needed. And a good narrative describing each ship's particulars.

[biggles2]

I have an increasing interest in dreadnought and pre-dreadnought designs. I tend to keep away from resin models, but I have the collection of Beiyang fleet in 1/700 by S-Models (which are very good, BTW, with brass barrels and complete PE). Their Ching Yuen (or Jingyuen) is a good example of British pre-dreadnought designs, being built by Armstrong Whitworth in early 1880's.

[DariusP]

6" gun casemates of HMS Magnificent

[DariusP]

Wow, I'm surprised that there isn't much feedback on RN pre-dreadnoughts on this thread, considering how many pre-dreadnought kits were released by Combrig.

That doesn't mean much Haijun watcher because Combrig doesn't have access to some secret source of knowledge about British pre-dreads. They use what most of us do - Burt's drawings and online photos. And Burt's drawings were meant as general reference drawings and not as a guide for model makers. So Combrig kits of British pre-dreads, while nicely executed, are approximations and not accurate depictions of those ships.
But, after saying all that, it is a sad fact that there is not much info about those ships. American, French or even Russian vessels are covered in much greater detail than the British ones! Sure, detailed drawings can be ordered from IMM but, with their prices, it costs a fortune to order a set of plans of just one ships nevermind 2 or 3!

Back to your question... can't help you with Mars but here is a link to a rendering project of Majestic: http://forums.airbase.ru/2010/11/t73735 ... ablej.html
Author wasn't using drawings from IMM but (with help from other Airbase forum members) he manages to gather quite impressive amount of information.

[RNfanDan]

This thread is about British pre-Dreadnoughts, NOT just Combrig nor any other models.

Hopefully however, the recent attention (as of this date) this thread has drawn, will inspire builders to consider creating "pre-dreds"--either from commercially-produced kits or even better, from scratch.

I have no stake in this, as I am not attracted to RN warships before 1905, but I think they would make excellent projects for those who ARE.

It is good to see some "life" being breathed into the thread, though...

'Nuff said,

Dan

[Timmy C]

This thread is about British pre-Dreadnoughts, NOT Combrig nor any other models.

:

Not exclusively, but the latter are perfectly legitimate subjects of discussion from the perspective of historical accuracy and modifications necessary.

[RNfanDan]

This thread is about British pre-Dreadnoughts, NOT Combrig nor any other models.

:

Not exclusively, but the latter are perfectly legitimate subjects of discussion from the perspective of historical accuracy and modifications necessary.

My point being, it is not necessary that a commercial or other model even exists of one of these ships, to open the subject to discussion. I edited my prior post to clarify.

I'm happy to see the topic active, at least!

[Haijun watcher]

My point being, it is not necessary that a commercial or other model even exists of one of these ships, to open the subject to discussion. I edited my prior post to clarify.

All hail COMBRIG, the mighty saviour of Russian capitalism (click link)!!! HAIL!!!!

[Rick_H]

In the first few years of the 20th century, it appears that RN Home Fleet ships were grey, while Channel Fleet ships carried the older Victorian black/ white/ buff scheme. Is it known when the Channel Fleet shifted to grey overall?
Thanks in advance,
Rick

[Jack G]

To answer that question, I can only regurgitate what is in Burt's book, the bits and pieces I can find
Venerable was first to commission in grey paintwork, 17 Nov 1902
It seems that newer ships were commissioned to the Mediterranean fleet (Formidable, Bulwark class)
Canopus class changed to grey 1903-4
Experimentation to find a less visible paint began mid 1901.
Majestic class, experimental paint schemes 1902, replaced with all grey 1903-4. Some with funnel bands. These were ships that were on the Channel fleet. (Majestic, Magnificent, Prince George, Mars, Jupiter, Hannibal).

If you can find the book, p64 deals with the experimentation and adoption of the grey.

[speedbird]

HMS Montagu. Now that's a story!

[Chris Meddings]

does anyone know where I can get plans for the Duncan Class HMS Exmouth? (1901)

[Jack G]

The Montagu...

Some of the better surf in the UK is within eyeshot of where she (or what's left of her) lies. Usually when back in Blighty I'm too busy chasing a wave out in those parts, but it has occurred to me to try to get over and maybe even dive on the wreck. Plus, they don't seem to have the Great White infestation we have in southern Australian waters; have always felt safe in the water in the UK.

Right, getting inspired now to try that 1/350 Mikasa conversion to a Formidable...

[Pieter]

The National Maritime museum is putting scans of its admiralty drawings online, including those of the late 19th century. This may help redress the reference problem Darius mentioned earlier in this thread.
For example entering HMS Majestic, HMS Captain or HMS Colossus in the search box here can get you some very interesting results. http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections.html#!cbrowse
The NMM does not seem to like deep linking so its up to the reader to do the search work.

[speedbird]

image upload

Couple of pencil sketches I did of HMS Montagu.

I worked off a couple photos of her that I really liked. Thought I'd re-create them with my own hand.

[Chris Meddings]

image upload

Couple of pencil sketches I did of HMS Montagu.

I worked off a couple photos of her that I really liked. Thought I'd re-create them with my own hand.

superb work

[speedbird]

Why didn't ships like the Duncan class meet the definition of what we call "dreadnought" today? Their secondary armament was nowhere near as extensive as other post-dreadnought designs. Was it the fact they were almost second-tier battleships?

I can see how a ship like USS Idaho bb24, similar in most respects to the Duncans, with their large secondary turrets would be considered second class pre-dreadnoughts. The Duncans seem to be mostly there in terms of the evolution. What am I missing?

Also, were the awnings over the sternwalks always in place? I'm curious if I could get away with modeling all of the sternwalk awning bracing without putting the awning in palce. Just some extra detail.

Thanks!!!