Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[Guest]

Above the guys is an air intake. Level with them are what appears to be two panels. There is a stateroom on the other side of the bulkhead and that's it. So no vent plenum or anything like that so an intake is out of the question. They "look" like intake covers but there's no intake there best I can tell.

Yeah the panels are what I was looking at. The ones level with the 3 guys. Directly to the right of the third guy. I was on the Iowa in May and have a picture of the port side superstructure. All the picture shows are the hinges of *something*.

[CPL_Wiggles]

Above the guys is an air intake. Level with them are what appears to be two panels. There is a stateroom on the other side of the bulkhead and that's it. So no vent plenum or anything like that so an intake is out of the question. They "look" like intake covers but there's no intake there best I can tell.

Yeah the panels are what I was looking at. The ones level with the 3 guys. Directly to the right of the third guy. I was on the Iowa in May and have a picture of the port side superstructure. All the picture shows are the hinges of *something*.

Forgot to sign in.

[BB62vet]

Being away from the shop & ref. mat'ls., I can only comment on the photos described above:

The Stbd. NJ photo Cliffy B provided does not show the corresponding rectangular vent on this side due to the angle of the shot and a mushroom ventilator on the deck hiding that corner of the bulkhead.

The port NJ photo does show the hose rack (w/o hose) and a modified bulkhead area DIFFERENT from the photo GUEST provided with the 3 sailors standing to the left of the rect. vent. This photo shows an exterior vent. shaft (my opinion) that has been added about 6"-1' above the deck upwards and curves into the fwd. facing bulkhead. The rect. vent shown in the 3 sailor photo has been removed and modified (externally, at least).

I checked both my 1950 MO and 1956 WISC. Booklet of Gen. Plans, but the description of the internal spaces within the citadel area is not legible on either drawing. I will see if my 1967 NJ BGP has something that can shed some light (maybe).

My guess at this point re. the orig. 3 sailor photo is that the item in question was a deck level rectangular bulkhead vent panel that could be removed for access to clean or perform maintenance. The two external items CliffyB mentions DO show up on the 1956 WISC. BGP and I agree they do look like external boxes/shafts/etc. - but without any explanation or nomenclature.

Will post a further comment next week when I'm back at my shop.

[CPL_Wiggles]

Thanks for the info/investigation. It's crazy I can find plenty of pictures on the starboard side of USS Iowa and New Jersey, but the port side showing that area is nearly impossible! Or the detail just isn't there.

My initial curiosity came from my 1/700 Tamiya Waterline Iowa I'm working on. I was attaching the PE hatch on the starboard side closest to the citadel and assumed the port had a corresponding hatch on the port side.

Lucky for me I checked my sources before making the mistake!

And then I hit the brick wall of: 'Now I'm curious, I HAVE to know!'

This pre-enclosed bridge (1943-ish) Iowa is my first model attempt since the good 'ole days of being a 7 year old and lathering on paint and glue.

It's slow going, but this forum and website keeps me inspired! It even forced me out of a 5 year Lurk on this site to make my first post!

[Fliger747]

Page 255 of Stillwell's Missouri has a nice photo of this area. yes, the ships varied, but at least Missouri carried the two small vertical vent screens on this corner in May 1986 and still carries these today. The reason the ship internal arrangement is quite asymmetrical is because it is "Officers Country", there is one Captain, one Exec, one (perhaps) admiral, navigator and on and on, each with individual needs and claims on space.

Cheers: Tom

[CPL_Wiggles]

Thank you all for the fine research and knowledge sharing. Maybe I will use this area for a small experiment in scratch-built detailing!

Again, appreciated. Will start a WIP thread and keep you posted on my progress!

[ModelMonkey]

Seeking any information (dimensions, extents, placement, photos, etc.) of the vent trunking on the bottom of the 16-inch turrets. Photos indicate that they are asymmetrical and I am hoping the experts here can shed some light on them.

My apologies if this has already been covered.

[Cliffy B]

What time period on the vents and which turret(s)?

[Fliger747]

Steve:

I can possibly find some photos I took of this area as currently configured on Missouri as I was trying to get them more or less correct without exact measurement.

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Model Monkey wrote:

Seeking any information (dimensions, extents, placement, photos, etc.) of the vent trunking on the bottom of the 16-inch turrets. Photos indicate that they are asymmetrical and I am hoping the experts here can shed some light on them.

Steve - you'll need to be more specific - which ship, what time frame? They all differed as to appearance and so forth. Also, additions and modifications were made to one or more of the IOWAs, but not all.

Hank

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks for the help!

I'd like to start with Missouri's 16-inch turrets as built through the surrender ceremony 9/45, if possible. I'd like to start with a common early/as-built configuration. I'm guessing the closer in time one gets to their original construction, the more the turrets of all the ships of the class will have in common. Happy to be proven wrong, however.

Then, is there a configuration that is reasonably common across the ships for 1990s?

Maybe the better question is: Is there a 16-inch turret vent trunk configuration that is a good starting point for most modelers, one reasonably representative of most turrets on most ships, one that could be easily modified by a modeler to other configurations if necessary?

Regarding Mk.37 Directors, generally about BB-61 class but others as well, about specific mods.
1. As far as I can tell, Mod. 17 has the control officer cockpit, with two observation hatches on top under the radar screen, another observation hatch next to the cockpit, and just two telescope port covers on the lowest angled front plate (one for trainer and one for pointer). Please confirm or deny I understand that correctly. BB-63 and BB-64 appear to have this mod in 1945.

2. Then there is an earlier "Flat Back" Director mod, that appears on as-built BB-62 and BB-63, as well as BB-55 today, also very commonly seen on Fletchers, for example, that has no cockpit, but three observation hatches at the control officer's level and three telescope port covers directly below them on the lowest angled front plate. Which mod is that?

3. And the "Angle Back" Director as seen on BB-61 in 1943, which mod is that?

[Fliger747]

Turret one on Missouri had the rangefinders removed at some point and replaced with a low side vent in addition to the bottom vents on the overhang. I will have to look at my photos of the bottom vents, but I believe they are the same for all three turrets at present. Turret two currently has a stage below the entry hatches whereas one and three do not. It could be that the height above the deck is slightly greater, but I have not measured this. Very busy at work with long days at present so might be a bit before I can research the photos. If the ones on the Whisky boat are the same Cliffy might be able to measure them for you.

The early Mk 37 directors were not equipped with radar and my understanding the back bulge is for the added equipment. My ALASKA model originally had the mark with the cockpit for the slewing sight, which as it turned out was correct for Guam, but not Alaska so I modified them to the earlier three hatch configuration.

Missouri does have the seven sided vertical back Mk 38 housing.

Sorry for lack of specifics but will pass along any info that comes my way.

Regards: Tom

[Rick E Davis]

First off by "Control Officer Cockpit", do you mean this ...

This cockpit was a late WWII mod added to Mk 37 directors and it did nothing to change the Mod number of the director (at least it had no impact on changing Mod numbers on destroyers).

All of the IOWA class battleships were COMPLETED with radar on the Mk 37 directors. IOWA and NEW JERSEY had the Mk 4 radar installed at commissioning and I'm not sure, but it looks like initially WISCONSIN had just Mk 12 radar installed (and had Mk 22 installed when available), whereas MISSOURI was commissioned with Mk 12/22 radar installed.

The IOWA class units had two different sets of Mk 37 directors as of 1960 Armament Summary;

IOWA and NEW JERSEY initially had the "Taper-Backed" Mk 37 directors (Mod numbers unknown) installed with Mk 4 radar, at some point, likely when the Mk 12/22 radars were installed, they were upgraded with "Square-Backed" Mk 37 Mod 8 (1 unit), Mod 9 (2 units), and Mod 10 (1 unit) directors installed. This was necessary because the Taper-Backed Mk-37 directors couldn't accommodate the Mk 12/22 radar set. Yes the boxes on the back of the director were for the Mk 12/22 radar.

I'm not sure when a change was made during construction, but it appears that MISSOURI and WISCONSIN were commissioned with the newer "Square-Back" Mk 37 Mod 11 (1 unit), Mod 12 (2 units), and Mod 13 (1 unit) directors.

I'm not sure, but given the Mod numbers on the IOWA's and the earlier NORTH CAROLINA's and SOUTH DAKOTA's (Mods 2, 3, and 4) and that those units also had their Taper-Backed Mk 37 directors replaced with Square-Backed Mk 37 directors, that there could have been a change in the "Shield" so that the Mk 12/22 could be fitted in and they retained the rest of the Mk 37 director system without changing the Mod number.

As far as I can tell they retained these, at least until they were recommissioned during the 1980s. What changes were made to the Mk 37 directors at that time I don't know.

[ModelMonkey]

Great discussion! That's exactly what I was hoping to learn. Thank you all so much!

[Fliger747]

Steve:

Photos of current Missouri, probably only the turret one vents were changed (possibly when the rangefinders were removed). Included those as well. Hope this of some assistance.

[Cliffy B]

The side vents on Turret One were a 1980s modification to try and keep water out of them. Only BB-63 and 64 got the mod though to the best of my knowledge and BB-64's were made even higher (practically to the top of the turret) than 63's.

[ModelMonkey]

Great photos and explanations! Thanks for all the help!

[BB61]

I'm just in the very beginning of going through all 139 pages of this thread, but I imagine that's going to take a serious amount of time. While what all I'll be seeking may well be included in this thread, at this point I have no idea. So, does anyone have any really clear photos of what a typical Iowa class battleship deck handrail support looks like? I'm referring to the vertical post (for lack of a better word), that the handrail cables are supported by.

I'm resuming work on my scratch-built #1 turret, and will eventually need as much data as I can gather relative to the gun and deck, from immediately aft of the turret, all the way to the end of the barrels, and the full width of the deck: scuttles, bits, stanchions, cleats, drains, breakwater, etc.

Thanks a bunch, fellas,

[BB61]

As I suspected (and feared), many of the photos from earlier posts seem to have disappeared anyway, so I'll probably end up bugging you guys for lots more photo reference help. For what it may be worth, I have several, but certainly not all, of the Missouri and Iowa class books, as well as a ton of walk around shots from all four ships in the class, but still many details need more clarity.

[Timmy C]

Check out the latest few dozen pages - museum volunteers like Cliffy B has posted a bunch of close-up shots of various fittings.