Calling all USN 1,500 tonner-class DD fans

NCMac · Post by **NCMac** » Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:07 pm

Thank you gentlemen. I'm still refining the stack and have narrowed the trunk to match the width of the "transition" section between the trunk and the funnel. More study of Rick Davis' superb photos reveals additional work that needs doing.

I'll keep plugging away.

Regards,

Mac

Haijun watcher · Post by **Haijun watcher** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:07 pm

Hello all,

Do any of you think that due to the shortage of Midship Models' kits of all the classes on this thread, that it would be easy to convert kits from one class to another?

For example, after an extensive online search for Bagley and Benham class destroyers, I could only find 2 Gridley class kits made by Midship Models. The Gridleys are similar to the other 2 classes, though converting them to Bagley class DDs may be difficult due to the Bagleys' distinct trunked funnels. Has anyone attempted this scratchbuild with styrene sheets?

I would think that a Gridley class would be easier to convert to a Benham class.

To add to the confusion, the Squadron series books on US destroyers, parts 2 and 3, list the first 2 Gridleys and all the Bagleys as "the Craven class", while the latter two Gridleys and the Benhams are called the "McCall class".

maxim · Post by **maxim** » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:10 pm

As far as I remember there was no difference between the kits of the different classes. They contained the same sprues.

NCMac · Post by **NCMac** » Wed Sep 09, 2015 7:36 pm

My recollection is the same. There were really only two kits here, one for the one-stackers and another for the two-stackers. Seem to remember there may have been an odd piece with several of the kits but nothing of great importance. Take a look through here: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... index.html

Mac

Post by **ModelMonkey** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:33 pm

Seeking any further information on the configuration and details of the Benham class funnel.

Great discussion and photos, thanks so much!

Rick E Davis · Post by **Rick E Davis** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:37 pm

[Moderator edit, merged into this thread]

There were 22 USN destroyers in three "classes" built with 16 torpedo tubes. Ten of those were BENHAM class.

Images and a big discussion about this class and particularly their stack is covered in some detail.

Personally I have not gone into NARA Ship Plans to get copies of drawings yet, but I have about 100 images of this relatively small class of destroyers.

If after you have reviewed what has been posted and still have questions, ask and I will see what I have in the way of photos. Here are a couple of Overhead views for two units taken in 1942 and 1946 of the stack that show the oval shape of the stack and the different "legs" of the uptakes.

Rick E Davis · Post by **Rick E Davis** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:53 pm

Another view of the BENHAM class stack while USS STERETT was under construction. A very complicated puzzle to assemble.

In completed views of these destroyers, it looks like sheet metal was added to the sides and top to reinforce the six different boiler uptakes and of course the square shaped intakes and other gear block views in many photos.

Post by **ModelMonkey** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 5:50 pm

Rick, those photos are a huge help! Can't thank you enough.

Here's a preliminary Benham class funnel design intended for 3D printing. Please check my understanding of the overall shape so adjustments can be made before further detailing it. Comments welcome.

throck3 · Post by **throck3** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 7:51 pm

They sure bear a distinct resemblance to the funnels on the Sims class, sans funnel cap. I do see a difference in the decking over the forward and aft trunking legs, and the location of the mushroom vents between the trunks, but the general design is very close between the two classes.
throck3/Rick T

Frank Fowler · Post by **Frank Fowler** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 10:31 pm

They are close, but the longer trunk legs are forward of the stack and the shorter trunk legs are aft of the stack. On the Sims class the longer legs are aft and the shorter forward.

aptivaboy · Post by **aptivaboy** » Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:01 pm

One thing I'd recommend in Moment of Inspiration (that looks like what you're using) is to play with the lofting commands for the gussets. Its hard to see from the angles, but they may need to be bulged outwards a bit and made fuller. Right now, the lofts look too straight. Anyway, that's how they look to my eye. Otherwise, great job! Its a hard bunch of odd shapes to get right but its looking nice!

Bob

Post by **ModelMonkey** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:34 am

Bob, show me which gussets, please. I'm actually using 123D Design for this one.

Designing the trunk between the funnel and the six uptakes was trickier than I thought it would be.

MatthewB · Post by **MatthewB** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:59 am

I see one problem with the upper Trunk (what I believe someone called "Gussets") between the lower trunk and stack.

On the lateral (front-back) direction, the elliptical sections are too narrow at the tops of the ellipses.

They need to be wider, as the sections between there were narrower (at the "corners" of the trunk).

MB

aptivaboy · Post by **aptivaboy** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:01 pm

Gotcha, the render looks just like MOI's default render so I thought that's what you were using. MOI has some loft functions (I'm guessing 123 does, too) that let you specify straight lofts, curved lofts, etc. I had to really play around with them when making the Sims funnel to get the design even halfway close to being right.

Here's what I mean, the gussets pointed out with the arrows:

I would well be wrong, as I've learned the hard way that screen shots and renders aren't always the same as what's printed, but it just seems to my eye that the lofts are too straight; they should possibly be "puffier" or fuller. It's a super complex shape, as you've said, and it seriously almost drove me to drink!

Bob

MatthewB · Post by **MatthewB** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:07 pm

aptivaboy wrote:Gotcha, the render looks just like MOI's default render so I thought that's what you were using. MOI has some loft functions (I'm guessing 123 does, too) that let you specify straight lofts, curved lofts, etc. I had to really play around with them when making the Sims funnel to get the design even halfway close to being right.

Here's what I mean, the gussets pointed out with the arrows:

I would well be wrong, as I've learned the hard way that screen shots and renders aren't always the same as what's printed, but it just seems to my eye that the lofts are too straight; they should possibly be "puffier" or fuller. It's a super complex shape, as you've said, and it seriously almost drove me to drink!

Bob

OK... I had exactly backwards what was being called a "Gusset".

The gussets are a bit too wide along the fore-aft direction.

As for the loft.... I cannot tell if it is too flat or not from this.

MB

aptivaboy · Post by **aptivaboy** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:47 pm

Matthew, I think you're right about the "triangle" on the leading face being too narrow for its height at it apex. It's "shoulders" may need to be spread out and widened a tad.

Bob

MatthewB · Post by **MatthewB** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:49 pm

aptivaboy wrote:Matthew, I think you're right about the "triangle" on the leading face being too narrow for its height at it apex. It's "shoulders" may need to be spread out and widened a tad.

Bob

I think both leading and training faces need to be broadened/broader.

The elliptical faces on all four sides tended to be cut from the same ellipse.

MB

aptivaboy · Post by **aptivaboy** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 1:35 pm

The elliptical faces on all four sides tended to be cut from the same ellipse.

That I'm not so sure about. I can only go from my own experience doing the Sims funnel, but the side ellipses appear to be very different in shape from the forward triangle, and the aft triangle on the Sims was more of a quadrilateral. The angle of the funnel probably created a lot of these issues, "squashing" the after triangle into that quadrilateral shape, for example. I suspect the Benhams' funnels were similar.

Bob

MatthewB · Post by **MatthewB** » Wed Nov 11, 2015 2:13 pm

aptivaboy wrote:
The elliptical faces on all four sides tended to be cut from the same ellipse.

That I'm not so sure about. I can only go from my own experience doing the Sims funnel, but the side ellipses appear to be very different in shape from the forward triangle, and the aft triangle on the Sims was more of a quadrilateral. The angle of the funnel probably created a lot of these issues, "squashing" the after triangle into that quadrilateral shape, for example. I suspect the Benhams' funnels were similar.

Bob

Trapezoidal shape...

But, yes, the aft section had that trapezoidal shape because the top of the ellipse was cut-off.

MB

Post by **ModelMonkey** » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:44 am

Respectfully disagree with the fuller look of the trunk's for Benhams and Sims. Fullness is not consistent with photos.

The perfectly flat, semi-elliptical facets at the sides and fore-aft in photos show these features to be quite sharp (narrow at the shoulders), especially fore-aft. They are also not cropped at the top.

The bulged "gussets" between the elliptical facets are only slightly bulged. They appear very flat in these photos:

(All photos from Rick E. Davis)