Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[BB61]

Thanks, Tim, and I will continue going through all 139 pages, just to be safe. I just recently downloaded some very helpful photos from navsource.org, one of which immediately clarified what would have been a glaring error on my part (not to mention a lot of wasted time), and that is that the tops of the turrets are not covered with bolt heads or rivets as I had assumed, but were instead screw heads all over the place. That detail alone was worth a ton to me.

[SpyderDan]

The side vents on Turret One were a 1980s modification to try and keep water out of them. Only BB-63 and 64 got the mod though to the best of my knowledge and BB-64's were made even higher (practically to the top of the turret) than 63's.

I believe you are correct about BB-64, and the reason those vents go all the way to the top is because they were added after the range finders were already removed.

BB-63, however, has the shorter vents because they were present before the rangefinders were removed. Here is a 1948 photo, showing both the side vents and the rangefinders at the same time:

[BB62vet]

New question - for those building the Trumpeter 1:200 MISSOURI/IOWA Kits with the Pontos PE sets -

On Pontos PE Sheet #12 - what are Parts #751 and #752?? What do they go to? I can't find any reference or callout to them on any of the instruction sheets. There are maybe 30+ of each part - do they go with the 20mm guns or ????

Any help would be appreciated!!!

Hank

edit - 8:24 am - Kim @ Pontos has answered my question - these parts were on the sheet but deleted from instructions - they were the detailed arms for the Mk. 51 FC directors and Pontos decided they didn't work properly so took them off the instruction sheet.

[Fliger747]

Hank

Interesting that the above photo showed the "closeline" for the signal halyards, we hadn't noticed that before you pointed it out!

Regards. Tom

[BB62vet]

Tom Wrote:

Interesting that the above photo showed the "closeline" for the signal halyards, we hadn't noticed that before you pointed it out!

Well, it was something that was part of both the kit plastic yard and Pontos PE yard that I couldn't figure out until it was time to look into the signal halyard arrangement. That's when it became apparent that this was a unique setup.

I've updated my build in the Picture Post/Works In Progress Forum.

Edit - NO, I haven't updated my build - something won't allow me to add photos. I'll have to try from home tonight.

Hank

[Cliffy B]

Here's a cropped view of the forward facing side of BB-64's port yardarm. We've since re-run the outboard halyard after it broke.

[Harquebus]

As I suspected (and feared), many of the photos from earlier posts seem to have disappeared anyway...

And that is what grieves me the most about this thread--half of it or more is worthless because the pictures or picture links are all kaput. I suppose they were hosted on photobucket or some such and the associated accounts and/or links got corrupted...

Grievous.

[Fliger747]

Narvik eh? I had an old Norwegian friend who recently died, fought with the Norsk Ski Troops at Narvik... and was captured.

[steinerman]

While I'm waiting for the Pontos Detail kits for my 1:200 Trumpeter Missouri, I've been reading about and studying the real ship. One of the references I have is a book by Stefan Draminski titled "Super Drawings in 3D: The Battleship USS Missouri", published by Kagero. In this book, they show two things that confuses me.

Question # 1: They show a paravane chain running from the hawspipe at the tip of the bow down to the paravane skeg at the bottom tip of the bow.

When exactly was this chain in place? Is it appropriate to add it to a model of this ship?

Question #2: On the rear of the 5" gun turrets the book shows something they call "Shell Deflection Brackets".

None of any of the other references I've ever seen, including photos of the actual ship, show these brackets. Are they just a figment of this writer's imagination. or was there really such items at one time on these ships? Is sounds a littler strange to me.

Thanks, Gents

[Fliger747]

Interesting item, always something new showing up. I once occupied the position of hot case man on a single 5" 38 mount, the job being to toss the hot spent case out the back of the mount, wearing a long pair of asbestos gloves. We had a deflector that was part of the mount. For the twin mounts many different setups were used or tried. haven't seen these before. As my 1:192 Missouri was a modern version these weren't part of my research. All my battleship books are now up in "winter Camp" in Fairbanks.

Great question!

[BB62vet]

Larry,

I could not find any photos to substantiate the 3D drawing showing the shell deflector bracket. When 5" mounts are in operation, empty (spent) brass is ejected BELOW the mount thru the upper handling room into the space below. As an example, our berthing area on the main deck amidships was below the upper handling room for Mt. 56 - there is a spring-loaded circular door in the overhead and empty 5" casings were discharged thru that opening into our area when the mount was firing. The casings can also be discharged externally from the back of the mount itself, but I don't ever recall seeing any "bracket" for that purpose. I have a photo in my cruise book showing empty brass casings all around one of the port 5" mounts after a day of firing. I would not rely on these "modern" renderings as much as I would actual photos of the IOWAs thru the years.

As for the paravane chain - I did find a couple photos (NavSource) of MISSOURI with her paravane chain in place thru the hawse hole down into the water, presumably into the bellmouth opening at the forefoot skeg (there is a 7" dia. pipe that extends up thru the forepeak tank to the main deck into which the chain runs which guides the paravane wires used for minesweeping).

I don't think I would show this chain on the model as it would seem to me to be inconsistent with a display model. Perhaps in a diorama it might be appropriate.

Hope this helps,

[Fliger747]

Hank:

Do you know where the paravane chains emerged on the foredeck? Were the winches abeam the anchor windlasses use for handling these? Landgraff does mention in the excerpt that you sent that the winches were handy for other uses and left during the modernization.

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Tom Wrote:

Do you know where the paravane chains emerged on the foredeck? Were the winches abeam the anchor windlasses use for handling these? Landgraff does mention in the excerpt that you sent that the winches were handy for other uses and left during the modernization.

I was just looking at the 1982 deck plan for NJ and also my 2000 photos on board the ship at the upper bow area - I can't see anything like what R.G. describes, except that there is a small deck level wildcat on the stbd side just fwd of the discone antenna support framework. This could be what he's referred to but where it's controls are, I don't know. I'm still unclear as to how the paravanes are rigged and so forth - I've been looking for an illustration, but to no avail, as yet.

The 1956 BB64 BGP deck plan does show the paraavane davits (port/stbd) - they are just fwd of the ends of Turret 1's barrels on either side, extending out over the sides of the ship. Ironically, the 1950 BB63 BGP deck plan does NOT show any paravane equipment or paravanes on deck. This is all very strange

Hank

[James M]

There is a small chain windlass just forward of the anchor capstans on the starboard side that is for the paravane down haul chain. It goes forward thru two other pulleys to the bullnose casting.
The controls are down in the anchor windlass room below it.

Here's a picture of the windlass. It's the windlass on the left with the angled pulley going into the chain locker.
http://navsource.org/archives/01/063/016331.jpg

Here's a picture of how the chain was rigged going forward
http://navsource.org/archives/01/062/016294.jpg

Here's a photo of the other pulleys.
http://navsource.org/archives/01/061/016130b.jpg
The open scuttle to the left is the sand locker for holly stoning the deck.

The downhaul chain would always be rigged even if the ship wasn't streaming the paravanes.
The chains for steaming the paravanes would be come up from the forefoot and secured to the deck when they weren't being used.
The Iowas had them in WWII and Korea. The New Jersey didn't have them for Vietnam.

James

[Fliger747]

Quite interesting! Hank: Note the rigging of the foremast halyards!

Great photos.

[Harquebus]

Littered throughout this thread are designations for certain deck levels by number (03, 04, 011 Level etc.). Is there a guide or legend somewhere detailing what and where those are?

Getting back on topic...

I found an interesting photo of the Mk. 49 F.C. Director on board NEW JERSEY, circa 1943 -

BB62 Mk. 49 Director 1943.jpg

I won't be modeling this, but I know others that are building the 1940's era IOWA class and this might be of some help.

Looking at this the first time around, I actually thought it was a post-war 1960's era gun director on account of the overall R2-D2 shape and the 'fancy' radar dish. It's because I thought I knew all the different gun directors on the WWII era-Iowas and the type of director that I thought was supposed to be installed in that location was the kind that you stood behind and aimed manually (a MK 51). This photo should prove very useful.

[Fliger747]

Not getting attachment showing?

[Fliger747]

Deck levels are numbered above the main deck, which is the O1, next deck up is th O2 etc. for instance the navigating bridge is at the O4 level, secondary conn at the O8 and the top of the fire control tower the O11.

Cheers. T

[Harquebus]

Thanks for the info on deck nomenclature.

Not getting attachment showing?

I don't know why that is--just another forum quirk which I must admit I'm not a fan of, nor of the format. Here's the photo in question originally posted by BB62vet:

[Fliger747]

I remember reading about these, apparently not totally sucessful. Thanks for dredging up the photo. I hadn't looked at this closely enough before to realize that they were located on the 05 level just aft of the fire control level of the coning tower.

Cheers. T