Calling all Yamato (大和) and Musashi (武蔵) fans

[baseballbrat]

Has anyone come across this in the US?

[baseballbrat]

Coming out this week from Osprey Publishing.............

Osprey Duel #70

9781472808493_5.jpg (33.69 KiB) Viewed 2235 times

[baseballbrat]

Does anyone here have this book in their collection? If you do, can you please comment on what you think of it.

Battleship Yamato Construction Memoir Complete reprint%20material%20and%20photograph%20collection copy.jpeg (28.78 KiB) Viewed 2234 times

[MalX]

HI
i'm a new member here but have been a keen Yamato fan for years, i've had the Nichimo Yamato and also a few Tamiyas, but these are long gone, about 20 years ago !!!!

i've just brought the Tamiya Yamato Premium, i'd like to ask a few questions please

1..........did Yamato have sand bags around all her AAA on her last suicide mission, because the Tamiya kit looks wrong to me, not enough ??

2.........are we sure the decks were dark gray ? because Teak or similar is very hard to stain for long and is likely to wash off, stain from my experience is only really effective on softwood furniture/garden fences etc............wooden decks on yachts/ships are too close grained and polished maybe, i'm deffo not sure about this..

3.........how weathered was she ? this ship was the pride of the navy and i'm guessing was kept in tip top condition by bored sailors (like Tirpitz), i'm therefore guessing her hull side was the only area that looked weathered..... this bothers me quite a lot

4........ the flight deck stripes ( 2 of them) has always bothered me !!!! they look like light gray to me !!!

[baseballbrat]

HI
i'm a new member here but have been a keen Yamato fan for years, i've had the Nichimo Yamato and also a few Tamiyas, but these are long gone, about 20 years ago !!!!

i've just brought the Tamiya Yamato Premium, i'd like to ask a few questions please

1..........did Yamato have sand bags around all her AAA on her last suicide mission, because the Tamiya kit looks wrong to me, not enough ??

2.........are we sure the decks were dark gray ? because Teak or similar is very hard to stain for long and is likely to wash off, stain from my experience is only really effective on softwood furniture/garden fences etc............wooden decks on yachts/ships are too close grained and polished maybe, i'm deffo not sure about this..

3.........how weathered was she ? this ship was the pride of the navy and i'm guessing was kept in tip top condition by bored sailors (like Tirpitz), i'm therefore guessing her hull side was the only area that looked weathered..... this bothers me quite a lot

4........ the flight deck stripes ( 2 of them) has always bothered me !!!! they look like light gray to me !!!

Question #1...........

Tamiya did extensive research before releasing the new tool kit. I only recall sandbags half way around the single AA guns at deck level. I haven't seen any sandbags around the other guns on the tower.

Question #2............

The deck was colored Dark Grey by rubbing the soot from the coal burners onboard. To my knowledge this was done for her last voyage, so the color washing off was never an issue. Think of it as warpaint.

Question #3.............

The hull was weathered due to exposure to salt water. I would assume that anything around the hull would have some kind to corrosion including the degaussing cable that runs the entire length of the hull. Upkeep by sailors of any ship would keep it looking respectable, but on her last voyage, I don't think keeping the vessel sparkling clean knowing everyone is going to die was an issue. From my understanding the only thing important was how much sake could be drunk before the big day.

Question #4.............

The 2 stripes are the steel rails the seaplanes travel on to move them around the deck. The carts sit on top of the rails and support the floats. They must be supported by a heavy steel plate grey in color.

Just as a side note, Tamiya went to extremes to correct any inaccurate details in their first release. This was done by re-examination of any new documents and photos of the dive expedition. Since no full set of plans have be found and photos are very had to come by, you have to just use your own judgement what looks right. Do your research, get some books and choose which version you like the best. Looking around the net, some like the clean new look and other like a battle worn version. The only version I haven't see yet is how she lays on the bottom of the ocean floor. (not talking about the model at the Kure Museum)

Anyone want to add or correct me on this?

[Guest]

hi

thanks for that, i'll weather the hull only and mist over the superstructure with a thinned down lighter grey mixed with matt laquer, i'll leave the wooden deck as supplied. i'll build her as a semi museum model.

i'll get another Yamato or Musashi at a smaller scale and put a dark grey deck on it/ more weathering and then place it a Diorama, i like the Hasegawa 1/450 or the Fujimi 1/500, but i think the 1/700 will be a bit too small.

i've also brought the New Jersey and the KGV.

I would have got the Arii 1/250 Yamato but i could not find a wooden deck for it and it would have needed a lot of upgrading as well, i regret getting rid of the Nichimo years ago, but that was an RC model only and would have been near impossible to clean up and upgrade with PE.

[Vladi]

The only version I haven't see yet is how she lays on the bottom of the ocean floor. (not talking about the model at the Kure Museum)

Anyone want to add or correct me on this?

Hi baseballbrat,

I need to correct your statement above . If you look at page 63 of the Shipcraft 14: Yamato Class Battleships by Steve Wiper there are 2 photos of a 1/350 diorama built for Tamiya in Japan showing the appearance of the wreck on the bottom of the sea. You can also find one of them on page 85 of this thread (or http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k88/p ... ama_01.jpg) and some photos of the build process can be seen here http://www.spacecruiseryamato.com/ijn/tamiya.html).

EDIT: Actually, I just discovered this model is now placed at the Kure Museum, so YOU WERE RIGHT! Apologies

[baseballbrat]

The only version I haven't see yet is how she lays on the bottom of the ocean floor. (not talking about the model at the Kure Museum)

Anyone want to add or correct me on this?

Hi baseballbrat,

I need to correct your statement above . If you look at page 63 of the Shipcraft 14: Yamato Class Battleships by Steve Wiper there are 2 photos of a 1/350 diorama built for Tamiya in Japan showing the appearance of the wreck on the bottom of the sea. You can also find one of them on page 85 of this thread (or http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k88/p ... ama_01.jpg) and some photos of the build process can be seen here http://www.spacecruiseryamato.com/ijn/tamiya.html).

EDIT: Actually, I just discovered this model is now placed at the Kure Museum, so YOU WERE RIGHT! Apologies

Click on this page on the same site and download 5 short videos about the wreckage dives.

http://www.spacecruiseryamato.com/ijn/video.html

[MalX]

i've started the Tamiya 1/350 kit, loads of detail, i've got the hull and decks finished and she's ready for filler and light sanding tomorrow. it's a great shame Tamiya didn't make the hull in one piece, because it's a bit of a pain to assemble that lot.

she is quite small and light ( compared to my usual RC Tug boats), so i've added ballast to the hull to weight her down, but at least it's far easier to make than a Tug Boat.

i'm going to do the wooden deck in dark gray, plus fit those white square markers around the deck/hull edge, i've got all the PE sets for her so she should look awesome when finished.

how to stain the wooden deck will be a challenge without loosing plank detail, not neat paint but maybe thinned down black ink or thinned down Acrylic dark Gray....uuumm. the superstructure looks from the photos like a semi gloss finish, because it's deffo not flat Matt.

the sailors would have known that Yamato will be sunk before reaching Okinawa, just like the sinking of Musashi, they would have realised how vulnerable she was to mass air attack, it's strange but you dont really give this much thought until you start making the model.

[MalX]

hi

what's the most accurate version of the Yamato or Musashi after the Tamiya 1/350... is it the standard 1/700 Tamiya Yamato kit ?

i was thinking of a smaller version suitable as a Waterline Diorama...........thanks.

[Sebastien Lausdat]

Hello
Two of my future projects, are building, at 1/350, in full hull, Yamato (version operation Ten Go) and Musashi (version 1941-1942 , with 4 secondary turrets).
I have the two models from Tamiya (the old model).
I read all this post, but I still ask myself several questions:
1) do the old model is accurate in dimensions and shapes (hull, main and secondary turrets and superstructure)? If not, is it possible to correct it without too much work (time and money) ?
2) If this is not possible, is that the new model is really a better option and correct all the problems of the old model (considering the difference in price) ?
3) I have Anatomy of the Ship, Warship Pictorial and plans from Myukikai?
Are these plans are accurate in dimensions and shape?
Is there documentation, plan or a book that absolutely have to correct and to detail the two models?
4) Do Musashi is identical to Yamato (hull, main and secondary turret superstructure)?

It is possible someone has already answered these questions, but because of my poor English, it is very possible that I did not understand.
In this case, all my apologizes.
If you have the kindness to answer me, please, thank you to make simple sentences so that I understand.
Cheers
Seb

[baseballbrat]

Hello
Two of my future projects, are building, at 1/350, in full hull, Yamato (version operation Ten Go) and Musashi (version 1941-1942 , with 4 secondary turrets).
I have the two models from Tamiya (the old model).
I read all this post, but I still ask myself several questions:
1) do the old model is accurate in dimensions and shapes (hull, main and secondary turrets and superstructure)? If not, is it possible to correct it without too much work (time and money) ?
2) If this is not possible, is that the new model is really a better option and correct all the problems of the old model (considering the difference in price) ?
3) I have Anatomy of the Ship, Warship Pictorial and plans from Myukikai?
Are these plans are accurate in dimensions and shape?
Is there documentation, plan or a book that absolutely have to correct and to detail the two models?
4) Do Musashi is identical to Yamato (hull, main and secondary turret superstructure)?

It is possible someone has already answered these questions, but because of my poor English, it is very possible that I did not understand.
In this case, all my apologizes.
If you have the kindness to answer me, please, thank you to make simple sentences so that I understand.
Cheers
Seb

Seb,

1) Buy the "New Tool" Yamato Kit. More detail and better accuracy.

2) Newer correction and better molding make model look better.

3) Anatomy of the ship is a good reference book. Drawings are very good.

4) Yamato and Musashi are different. Hull is the same. Superstructure is a little different. Same guns, but different placement on superstructure and on deck.

[MalX]

the new Tamiya Yamato is so much better than the old kit that you really do need the new kit.

there is an alternative, get the Musashi with a full PE set, but it'll need to be a really good PE set, because it is very basic kit compared to the new Yamato.

if i was to say what's wrong with the Tamiya Yamato i'd say it's way too small for all that detailing, you cant see it at 6ft away, she needs to be 1/200, maybe we'll see a Trumpeter 1/200 soon if so you'll be laughing

with mine i cant make my mind up if i want the black deck or not, the black deck maybe best for 1/700...... this is always on my mind !!

there is no doubt that Yamato is the best looking battleship of all, she also looks brilliant sailing on a pond.

[Sebastien Lausdat]

Thank you very much gentlemen for your answers.
For detailling Yamato and Musashi, I will use the set from Gold Medal Models, Models White Ensign, Veteran Models, Genuine Models (Ishida san), Voyager, Lion Roar and/or Pontos.
In addition, the Scratchbuild does not scare me.
If the hull is old enough right in shape and dimensions, it is not problem for me to detail it. Whether, to correct a little the shape of the bow, for example, it's still ok. But whether to rebuild the half of the hull, it is best to invest in the new model.
As I have not yet studied these two battleships, I would like to know the level of accuracy of old models.
If really necessary to build Musashi, I will buy one second model of the new Yamato.
Regards
Seb

[Doug Hallet]

Baseballbrat, some alternative opinions on your responses:

Question #1...........

Sandbags and rolled up mattresses are portrayed extensively on the 2005 movie and are logical to assume were installed just prior to the sortie. The orders for the sortie were sent out only on a couple of days notice, so things would have been prepared very quickly and the opportunity to document it would be limited. If they bothered to add sands bags around a couple of single mount AA guns, its logical to assume they were elsewhere. Sandbags don't take long to fill and deploy so it was probably all done the day before they set sail.

Question #2............

The coal soot is specific to the October mission. For April, there is strong evidence that the decks were painted black or dark grey. Even if they weren't, hinoki pine used on the decks fades quickly to grey and the natural color of the decks would not have been yellow. Remember, Yamato had been sitting at anchor off Kure for four months in the cold, wet Japanese winter prior to the sortie. Plenty of time for the decks to fade. Yamato was a secret weapon and was never on public display. The efforts were on keeping the ship hidden, not on shining the decks so they gleamed in the sunlight.

Question #3.............

As above, weathering accrued over the 1945 winter would have been noticeable if not extensive. Wartime conditions, after all. No paint scraping or repainting, just your routine maintenance. The Yamato was part of the Japanese "quick reaction" force that was on short notice to respond to American moves. This, more than the lack of other available fleet units, was the reason why this particular task force sortied (with the ulterior motive of course of making sure that Yamato did not survive the war to surrender or get sunk ignominiously at anchor).

[baseballbrat]

Baseballbrat, some alternative opinions on your responses:

Question #1...........

Sandbags and rolled up mattresses are portrayed extensively on the 2005 movie and are logical to assume were installed just prior to the sortie. The orders for the sortie were sent out only on a couple of days notice, so things would have been prepared very quickly and the opportunity to document it would be limited. If they bothered to add sands bags around a couple of single mount AA guns, its logical to assume they were elsewhere. Sandbags don't take long to fill and deploy so it was probably all done the day before they set sail.

Question #2............

The coal soot is specific to the October mission. For April, there is strong evidence that the decks were painted black or dark grey. Even if they weren't, hinoki pine used on the decks fades quickly to grey and the natural color of the decks would not have been yellow. Remember, Yamato had been sitting at anchor off Kure for four months in the cold, wet Japanese winter prior to the sortie. Plenty of time for the decks to fade. Yamato was a secret weapon and was never on public display. The efforts were on keeping the ship hidden, not on shining the decks so they gleamed in the sunlight.

Question #3.............

As above, weathering accrued over the 1945 winter would have been noticeable if not extensive. Wartime conditions, after all. No paint scraping or repainting, just your routine maintenance. The Yamato was part of the Japanese "quick reaction" force that was on short notice to respond to American moves. This, more than the lack of other available fleet units, was the reason why this particular task force sortied (with the ulterior motive of course of making sure that Yamato did not survive the war to surrender or get sunk ignominiously at anchor).

What evidence have you found stating the deck was painted dark for the April mission? Can you shed light on this deck issue, so we can put this thing to bed? Hinoki Pine is rather weather resistant and used in bathrooms just for that reason.

[bucketfoot-al]

What evidence have you found stating the deck was painted dark for the April mission? Can you shed light on this deck issue, so we can put this thing to bed? Hinoki Pine is rather weather resistant and used in bathrooms just for that reason.

I hate to repeat myself, I have addressed this probably a dozen times over the years in this thread, so here goes again: In "Requiem for Battleship Yamato" Yoshida plainly states when referring to the machine guns and bombs raking the wood deck of Yamato on that morning that "the deck, painted jet black, is now unrecognizable" (after having been chewed up by the bullets and bombs).

I don't mean to be cranky about this, but the evidence comes from a man who was there that morning, survived, and wrote a book about it less than a year later: Yamato's deck was painted "jet black" for the final mission. Yoshida does not elaborate on how the deck was painted, and frankly, I really don't care too much whether they did it with paint, or, more likely based on suggestions, with soot. It was "jet black" for the final mission. Period. Unless you don't believe Yoshida....

[baseballbrat]

What evidence have you found stating the deck was painted dark for the April mission? Can you shed light on this deck issue, so we can put this thing to bed? Hinoki Pine is rather weather resistant and used in bathrooms just for that reason.

I hate to repeat myself, I have addressed this probably a dozen times over the years in this thread, so here goes again: In "Requiem for Battleship Yamato" Yoshida plainly states when referring to the machine guns and bombs raking the wood deck of Yamato on that morning that "the deck, painted jet black, is now unrecognizable" (after having been chewed up by the bullets and bombs).

I don't mean to be cranky about this, but the evidence comes from a man who was there that morning, survived, and wrote a book about it less than a year later: Yamato's deck was painted "jet black" for the final mission. Yoshida does not elaborate on how the deck was painted, and frankly, I really don't care too much whether they did it with paint, or, more likely based on suggestions, with soot. It was "jet black" for the final mission. Period. Unless you don't believe Yoshida....

I hadn't heard the deck was colored in October and again in April. I don't have "Requiem for Battleship Yamato" so i'm not privy to the information your quoting from. I'll have to pick one up and give it a read. All my books are in Japanese, so I can just look at the drawings and photos and rely on others for my history lessons. I'm not trying to stir up the pot, but trying to get the story straight. (it was October that Doug had mentioned that threw me off)

[Doug Hallet]

If you look at the overhead pics of Yamato (none of them are actually Musashi) in October, you'll notice that the dark color on the decks is very uneven, strong evidence of soot from the boilers having been mixed in buckets with water then sloshed over the deck and pushed around with mops. It actually had to be applied multiple times due to all the tropical rain showers the ship passed through. The color you see in the famous 1945 pic is very even, without any variations. You can't get that effect by pushing soot around. I think they resorted to paint since their experience with the soot in October was so unsatisfactory. I posted a pic here a while back showing the difference in color in fresh and weathered hinoki pine on battleship Mikasa. That pic alone should be all you need on the subject.

[bucketfoot-al]

If you look at the overhead pics of Yamato (none of them are actually Musashi) in October, you'll notice that the dark color on the decks is very uneven, strong evidence of soot from the boilers having been mixed in buckets with water then sloshed over the deck and pushed around with mops. It actually had to be applied multiple times due to all the tropical rain showers the ship passed through. The color you see in the famous 1945 pic is very even, without any variations. You can't get that effect by pushing soot around. I think they resorted to paint since their experience with the soot in October was so unsatisfactory. I posted a pic here a while back showing the difference in color in fresh and weathered hinoki pine on battleship Mikasa. That pic alone should be all you need on the subject.

baseballbrat: Apologies if my post above came off as a bit cranky, it was late. Yoshida's book can be read in one afternoon, it is absolutely fascinating, and not very long. The other book you really ought to read regarding her final mission was written by Russell Spurr and is titled "A Glorious Way To Die: The Kamikaze Mission of Battleship Yamato" Bothe can be found on Amazon.

Doug: You are correct in your quote above about all of the fairly close up overhead photos beingof Yamato at Leyte Gulf. However, there are overhead photos of Musashi from Leyte Gulf being hit by three successive torpedoes, although taken from an extreme height, and therefore lacking the level of detail that can be seen on the Yamato photos you refer to.

As a reminder to any newcomers reading this, all of these photos can be viewed on my Yamato website which is linked below my signature line. (The photos of Musashi being hit by the torpedoes are amazing in particular because in the 4th photo of the sequence you can actually clearly see the wakes left by the torpedoes on the surface of the water...)