New to ship modeling and extensive PE. Am I crazy?

[Novamodeler]

I am a pretty experienced (aircraft) modeler and want to try my hand at a Revell Bismarck with Pontos Detail up set. First, am I insane or do I have a reasonable shot at success if I make it a (very) long term project? Or is it truly only for the very experienced modelers out there?

Secondly, which sets are the best quality : Pontos. Eduard, White Ensign or someone else?

[nikosmadakis]

I must say you re diving into deep waters here. Maybe you should start with something smaller?
As far as the different brands are concerned they have their pros and cons. My personal opinion is that eduard has the best instructions. Pontos i have never used but i ve seen people complaining about them. With white ensign i ve had no problems.

You have to compare the different sets to see what they re offering and of course for what price. Pontos are expensive but offer a LOT (masts, decks, barrels included)!. The Big Eds by eduard and the others offer the PE you need but decks, barrels etc are extra.
It comes down to what your budget is and how far you wanna take it.

I think the Bismarck would take about a year with 6-8 hours a week by my slow standards...

Also if i were you i would look into the build threads to see how to go about building a ship, its quite different than other models.

Hope i helped a little bit

[Novamodeler]

Very much appreciated, thanks. Perhaps I should get the Eduard Big Ed set and a wood deck. The size of the project doesn't bother me, since it just takes longer. From my perspective a small ship with PE is no easier than a big ship with PE. The one just takes longer. Right? Or not? What I'm wondering about is more the difficulty of the detailing for a relative newbie to extensive PE work.

[nikosmadakis]

pe work is pe work. It s like you said, it just takes longer, and thus increasing the chances of driving you crazy! If you can afford it get the pontos with everything. I have the Eduard Big ED, 1 out of 3 parts of it is just figures. Haven' t started it yet though.
Piece of advice: study all instructions until you know them by heart, then decide what to make first and how to do it, when to paint etc. A ship is a sum of sub models. Like i said study built threads. Take a look here as an example

with the eduard set
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=92950

this one is for the 1/200 but very detailed build
http://www.florymodels.co.uk/trumperter ... mark-file/

and another one
http://www.florymodels.co.uk/revell-1350-bismark/

[Channell]

I was just ranting about this on the main thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=160813

I still think the 1/200 "mega sets" are scarier than 1/350 but the Pontos 1/350 Bismarck set is definitely an advanced project that would provide a lot of pain and frustration for a beginner.

Guess it depends on your skill level... if you are experienced with model aircraft, have done PE before and have an honest case of "Bismarck madness" (i.e. a budding passion for the subject itself) you'll be fine so long as you can stay patient, consistent and motivated. But if you've never done PE before and are just seeing the advertisement pics and thinking: "Ohhhh... shiny! Me WANT!" you are doomed to fail and waste your money.

As for quality of the sets, Pontos is the best but also the most difficult. The Lionroar 1/350 set was really nice too, though I don't know if it's still on the market or not.

[Channell]

Very much appreciated, thanks. Perhaps I should get the Eduard Big Ed set and a wood deck. The size of the project doesn't bother me, since it just takes longer. From my perspective a small ship with PE is no easier than a big ship with PE. The one just takes longer. Right? Or not? What I'm wondering about is more the difficulty of the detailing for a relative newbie to extensive PE work.

The bigger the scale, the more detail will be visible... and the number of details seems to grow exponentially depending on the scale.

If everything else is equal, bigger = more complicated and by extension, harder to pull off successfully.

[Guest]

I did not refer to scale. I referred to say a Bismarck vs a Fletcher. Same scale but less pieces in the Fletcher, and also less PE in its aftermarket. Is it harder to add the PE details to a Fletcher than to a Bismarck? I can't see why that would be.

Very much appreciated, thanks. Perhaps I should get the Eduard Big Ed set and a wood deck. The size of the project doesn't bother me, since it just takes longer. From my perspective a small ship with PE is no easier than a big ship with PE. The one just takes longer. Right? Or not? What I'm wondering about is more the difficulty of the detailing for a relative newbie to extensive PE work.

The bigger the scale, the more detail will be visible... and the number of details seems to grow exponentially depending on the scale.

If everything else is equal, bigger = more complicated and by extension, harder to pull off successfully.

[Timmy C]

It depends on the set you use. Taking the Fletcher's 40mm Bofors as an example: some will include all-PE or mixed resin-PE replacements for the AA guns, with a dozen parts, while some sets are more basic and include just a few pieces to dress up the kit's original part. (admittedly, my examples show the quad 40mm, while the Tamiya Fletcher uses only the dual - but the same principle applies).

A larger ship will also run into more opportunities for complex assemblies that require greater awareness of construction order. The more parts there are, the more you have balance the needs of assembly, painting, and accessibility for future additions.

[sgtryan13]

I am exclusively a ship modeler, and love the larger ships over the smaller ones, take a look at the link in my signature line and you'll see what floats my boat. I would describe myself as very experienced with photoetch, my advice would be to either pick a smaller test subject first, as has been suggested by others, or go with the Bismarck, but with a more user-friendly PE set for your first try. Pontos makes beautiful stuff, but it can be a real pain to work with and a buzz kill. Their brass is a little thinner than most, and as such is very unforgiving of errant bends. If you make a wrong bend, and try to re-bend it, 99% of the time the part will break in two at the bend spot. Pontos is also notorious for horrible directions, leading to a lot of frustration. their pe can be challenging to even the most experienced ship builder, but for me the directions just sucked all the fun out of it for me. Also, and this is just my personal preference here, I am not a fan of Pontos' replacement wood decks. many of them look to me to be over-etched, so the lines are burned in a little too dark, I much prefer Artwox wooden decks, more subtle and realistic in y opinion.

[Channell]

I did not refer to scale. I referred to say a Bismarck vs a Fletcher. Same scale but less pieces in the Fletcher, and also less PE in its aftermarket. Is it harder to add the PE details to a Fletcher than to a Bismarck? I can't see why that would be.

Not what I understood but yeah, a smaller ship of the same scale with less PE is generally easier, "technically".

I say technically because it really does depend on what you are building. All PE (and different PE assemblies) are not created equal.

Some things are much harder to put together and you can build anywhere on the detail continuum from bathtub toy to ultra detailed IPMS NATS or Telford-sweeping masterpiece with every last possible detail included that required several years of work.

Beyond that, quantity DOES count. Ask anyone how they feel after finishing a complete air wing for their 1/350 CVN kit! How about a WW2 BB with 50+ tiny 20mm guns that need to be assembled... each individual gun is fairly easy but to do 50 of 'em that all look the same is another feat entirely. Quantity definitely matters, not just technical difficulty of individual subassemblies.

Anyway... Bottom line, your suggested project (1/350 Bismarck +Pontos) ranks fairly high on the difficulty scale, so you ARE crazy to pick it for your first ship. Still, crazy can be fun and interesting... if you aren't new to modeling and PE and are blessed with unusual patience and perseverance it's certainly not impossible to pull off. If you go for it, don't forget to show it to us!

[Plaztiksquadron]

Novamodeler, I am in the exact same position as you...have built 1/48th for years...but acquired a 1/350th Tamiya Tirpitz and am very eager to try it. It is a bit overwhelming trying to figure out what aftermarket sets to buy and the build order but looking forward to it. Realize it will be a very slow build but want to learn how to master PE and this certainly should help. There obviously are lots of fine folks on this website to help out and I truly appreciate it. Will be fun to watch your progress and post my own as I get started.

Cheers

Ron D

[Guest]

Gulp! Thanks :)
I will take it especially slowly. Is the wood deck perhaps best saved for a future build? I was thinking it would be saving me a lot of painting and weathering time.
Also, is there a good rundown of a suggested "order" of doing things? When to apply wood decks, when to do the bulk of the photoetch etc?
Thanks for sharing your opinions, I like to hear honest opinions.

I did not refer to scale. I referred to say a Bismarck vs a Fletcher. Same scale but less pieces in the Fletcher, and also less PE in its aftermarket. Is it harder to add the PE details to a Fletcher than to a Bismarck? I can't see why that would be.

Not what I understood but yeah, a smaller ship of the same scale with less PE is generally easier, "technically".

I say technically because it really does depend on what you are building. All PE (and different PE assemblies) are not created equal.

Some things are much harder to put together and you can build anywhere on the detail continuum from bathtub toy to ultra detailed IPMS NATS or Telford-sweeping masterpiece with every last possible detail included that required several years of work.

Beyond that, quantity DOES count. Ask anyone how they feel after finishing a complete air wing for their 1/350 CVN kit! How about a WW2 BB with 50+ tiny 20mm guns that need to be assembled... each individual gun is fairly easy but to do 50 of 'em that all look the same is another feat entirely. Quantity definitely matters, not just technical difficulty of individual subassemblies.

Anyway... Bottom line, your suggested project (1/350 Bismarck +Pontos) ranks fairly high on the difficulty scale, so you ARE crazy to pick it for your first ship. Still, crazy can be fun and interesting... if you aren't new to modeling and PE and are blessed with unusual patience and perseverance it's certainly not impossible to pull off. If you go for it, don't forget to show it to us!

[Guest]

Gulp! Thanks :)
I will take it especially slowly. Is the wood deck perhaps best saved for a future build? I was thinking it would be saving me a lot of painting and weathering time.
Also, is there a good rundown of a suggested "order" of doing things? When to apply wood decks, when to do the bulk of the photoetch etc?
Thanks for sharing your opinions, I like to hear honest opinions.

I did not refer to scale. I referred to say a Bismarck vs a Fletcher. Same scale but less pieces in the Fletcher, and also less PE in its aftermarket. Is it harder to add the PE details to a Fletcher than to a Bismarck? I can't see why that would be.

Not what I understood but yeah, a smaller ship of the same scale with less PE is generally easier, "technically".

I say technically because it really does depend on what you are building. All PE (and different PE assemblies) are not created equal.

Some things are much harder to put together and you can build anywhere on the detail continuum from bathtub toy to ultra detailed IPMS NATS or Telford-sweeping masterpiece with every last possible detail included that required several years of work.

Beyond that, quantity DOES count. Ask anyone how they feel after finishing a complete air wing for their 1/350 CVN kit! How about a WW2 BB with 50+ tiny 20mm guns that need to be assembled... each individual gun is fairly easy but to do 50 of 'em that all look the same is another feat entirely. Quantity definitely matters, not just technical difficulty of individual subassemblies.

Anyway... Bottom line, your suggested project (1/350 Bismarck +Pontos) ranks fairly high on the difficulty scale, so you ARE crazy to pick it for your first ship. Still, crazy can be fun and interesting... if you aren't new to modeling and PE and are blessed with unusual patience and perseverance it's certainly not impossible to pull off. If you go for it, don't forget to show it to us!

[Guest]

Thanks, now I'm glad I didn't go for the Pontos PE. I got the Eduard Big Ed instead. Thoughts?

I am exclusively a ship modeler, and love the larger ships over the smaller ones, take a look at the link in my signature line and you'll see what floats my boat. I would describe myself as very experienced with photoetch, my advice would be to either pick a smaller test subject first, as has been suggested by others, or go with the Bismarck, but with a more user-friendly PE set for your first try. Pontos makes beautiful stuff, but it can be a real pain to work with and a buzz kill. Their brass is a little thinner than most, and as such is very unforgiving of errant bends. If you make a wrong bend, and try to re-bend it, 99% of the time the part will break in two at the bend spot. Pontos is also notorious for horrible directions, leading to a lot of frustration. their pe can be challenging to even the most experienced ship builder, but for me the directions just sucked all the fun out of it for me. Also, and this is just my personal preference here, I am not a fan of Pontos' replacement wood decks. many of them look to me to be over-etched, so the lines are burned in a little too dark, I much prefer Artwox wooden decks, more subtle and realistic in y opinion.

[Channell]

I'm finding it's generally best to stick with the kit instruction order, work on subassemblies and add the detail set materials as they apply to the subassembly/ kit instruction order.

I've been guilty of taking the "shotgun" approach before and working all over the place depending on whatever I felt like doing during a modeling session but I've also found that approach quickly leads to burnout and becoming overwhelmed with your project.

It's better to think of a large ship model as a "diorama" of subassemblies rather than a single model...Otherwise you may find your enthusiasm for the project play out too soon and well before you even get close to finishing.

In other words, building model warships isn't like building a model plane... it is more like building a model airforce base. Align your expectations accordingly.

[biggles2]

As for the wooden deck, go for it! I's no more difficult than any other of the build, and will certainly save you time. No need to paint the wood deck of a large ship and try to make it look like real wood (although it can be done). Assemble the hull and paint and mask where necessary. Paint the exposed metal parts of the deck whatever color(s) they should be, then glue to hull. Slowly and carefully apply the wooden deck, taking care to proper alignment before permanently pressing in place. You'll be impressed. I was apprehensive before my first wood deck, but now nearly all my ships get them.