Late-War RN tug colors

[VilleH64]

Hi,

I'm building a HMRT Envoy tug (Modell Slipway:s 1:48, the RC-one), and I wonder little about the color scheme. This is 1944 and 1945.

If I read right, the proper sceme is K(a), that is G45 light gray overall and B15 dark blue-grey decks?

Kit's instructions and some models have same grey to decks, so no blue-gray. Which one is probably more right?

Thanks,

Br Ville H

[VilleH64]

Answering to myself;
After studying available pictures, I think the G10 could be more likely option, considering contrasts between base colour, white liferings and black funnel cap. What do You fellow shipmodellers think?

And also the question about deck colour is still open...

Br, Ville H

[EJFoeth]

HMT ENCORE. � IWM (FL 11384)IWM Non Commercial Licence

From WEM's Camouflage of Ships at Sea, the main/deck color combinations for G45 is G20?

[mal wright]

In the late war period there was a greater chance that Fleet Tugs might have the correct designated colours applied than early in WW2 when there were many shortages.
However one must remember that this could also depend on where the vessel was deployed. Refits could take place in private yards and while they may have paid lip service to the Admiralty designated hues, the reality was still a case of 'what was available'. Fleet Tugs are shown in my book on BRITISH AND COMMONWEALTH WARSHIP CAMOUFLAGE WWII.

http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/British- ... II/p/6818/

However as with all ships in a time of war it was more important to get them back out to sea, than to have them hanging about waiting for the right this or that as I have explained in the book. In the later period of the war there were more paints available, and in greater variation. None the less there were many variations on the official schemes and modellers are often too fixated on what the regulations said, than what actually was.

Regards

[VilleH64]

Thanks for the comment, I understant well we can't get certainty in most cases, so we must operate by some probabilities.
My Envoy will (hopefully) participate Naviga contests, and rules expect, you have some documentation of ship properties, fe. colors. If I don't have a exact document that particular ship telling the color scheme, best quess is use the contemporary regulations and common practices. And that is what I am searching now. The idea "anything goes" might be easy to follow, but it is intellectually unpleasant, least to say...

Br, Ville H

[VilleH64]

HMT ENCORE. � IWM (FL 11384)IWM Non Commercial Licence

From WEM's Camouflage of Ships at Sea, the main/deck color combinations for G45 is G20?

Hi,

Some voting here, what would you think about the color of the Encore above (considering, the period is 1945 and the ship is dock-fresh new):

G45? Picture seems to be too dark for it, so out of question?
G10? Maybe bit light here, but some pictures of class ships shows the colour quite a dark.

AP507A? Same as G45?
AP507B? The darkness is about right.
AP507C? Same as a G10

Of course I understand, the original picture reproduction can affect the darkness etc...

Ville H

[508medway]

Most of the tugs by 1945 seem to have been painted a light grey which would have been G45. It is difficult to work out the shades using photographs especially black and white ones as the films such as panchromatic and orthochromatic reacted differently to different colours. Have a look at the attached photos from the 1930s, both ships are in 507C.

Re Mal�s comment, he seems to have forgotten that the RN appointed various paint companies such as Messers Goodass Wall & Co � Panpan Ltd �The Silicate Paint Co. (Mr J.B.Owen and Co Ltd) to produce ready mixed paint. The RN introduced ready mixed paint in the early 1930s. The RAN actually had it in use earlier than this.

Re the colours:

507A and G10 are the same colour.
507C and G45 are the same colour

The difference is that the 500 series were classed as A.2. paints i.e. Full Gloss Type and the later paints were classed as an A.1. type i.e. half gloss type.

507B was discontinued as a name in 1941 but the name was resurrected post WW2.

Also, pre war colours were simply known as Pattern. WW2 AFOs used the term Pattern and occasionally Admiralty Pattern but never AP507A etc.

[VilleH64]

Great, Thanks, but couple of further comments against the G45/AP507C:

As far I know, in case of G45 base, the pennant numbers should be dark, I don't remember the exact colour now.

Also, the contrast between white pennant numbers and hull colour is the main reason to consider color darker than G45/AP507C.

Do you have any late war 44-45 picture of a tug, what can easily recognized as G45/AP507C?

Some colour charts and also normally considered as accurate Colorcoats -enamels have very different gray for G45 than the AP507C, all G45:s are more brownish/beige. Do you have any explanation for this? I have now very contradictory information about this.

Ville H

[VilleH64]

After some searching I found this one myself:



This one looks more like a G45, isn't it? Period is not known, it can be post-war?

Ville H

[508medway]

As far I know, in case of G45 base, the pennant numbers should be dark, I don't remember the exact colour now.
You are right pendant numbers are dark on light grey and light on dark grey. The 507C colours would have been on home station ships as the RN had finally worked out that dark colours were better suited to brighter climates like the far east and light on home station. I�ve just done a search for Envoy and on May 22nd 1945 HMAS Norman was deployed as escort for Tug Envoy during tow of HMS Quilliam to Leyte. Logically then, as she was in the Far East, she would have been dark grey i.e. 507A. Interesting that at some time in the war (as commissioned?) she was light grey. Also interesting is that few tugs in photographs are wearing their pendant numbers. Makes me wonder if the home stationed ships didn�t and foreign or only the Far East with the US Navy had them painted up. I can't find any info of where Encore served.

Also, the contrast between white pennant numbers and hull colour is the main reason to consider colour darker than G45/AP507C.

Do you have any late war 44-45 picture of a tug, what can easily recognized as G45/AP507C? Yes Envoy, although she is wearing an interesting version of her pendant number!

Some colour charts and also normally considered as accurate Colorcoats -enamels have very different grey for G45 than the AP507C, all G45:s are more brownish/beige. Do you have any explanation for this? I have now very contradictory information about this. Refer to the attached from AFO 3113 1944 where it states this. It also says that ships not requiring camouflage which could mean vessels such as tugs which you rarely see wearing camo schemes. I�d guess that the tan grey version might have come from looking at a discoloured original sample.

[508medway]

This is all I can find on Encore.

2nd December 1944 Launched by Cochrane & Sons Ltd, Selby as Yard Nr 1294 named HMS Encore, 11 May 1945 completed.

20th March 1947 sailed Bombay with HMS Mediator, HMS Reward (later to become RFA Reward) towing AFD35 to Malta. Named as Operation Snow White. Arrived at Aden 3rd April, Suez Bay on 14th April, Port Said on 29th April, Malta on 8th May.

[VilleH64]

This Envoy picture is awesome, but I'll bet it is post-war?

Anyway, it is strict evidence of light gray colour and model should look fine in this scheme. I consider it strongly to my Envoy.

Thanks a lot!!!

Br, Ville H