biggles2 wrote:According to New Vanguard (Osprey) "German Destroyers 1939 - 45", Z7 (Type 34A Paul Jacobi Class) was built with a square front bridge, starting with Z6. So Trumpeter got that wrong to begin with. The Trumpeter model is more representative of the preceding class (Type 34) Z1 - Z4, and Type 34A Z5, pre-1938, after which they were all refitted with a square bridge. Maybe you could kit-bash a later date destroyer bridge.
New Vanguard still doesn't have it quite right. The type 1934 and 1934A destroyers can be divided into 4 groups by builder. Z1 to Z4 were built by Deutcshe Werke in Kiel. Z5 to Z8 were built by Deschimag in Bremen. Z9 to Z13 were built by Germania Werft in Kiel. And Z14 to Z16 were built by Blohm and Voss in Hamburg. All four of the Z1 group were built with the rounded bridge. Of the Z5 group, Z5 to Z7 were built with the rounded bridge. These seven all had the original more vertical bow as built as well, as did some of the later sisters. However, the "rounded bridge" is not at all as depicted by Trumpeter. The pilothouse, the lower part with the windows, was always square. It was only the open bridge above the pilothouse that was rounded. I have plenty of photos of all of them to prove it. As you said, the upper bridges were all squared by the end of 1938.
Each group had its unique identifiers only a few of which I will mention here. The Z1 group (type 1934) was built with a rounded edge to the forecastle deck, similar to the deck edge on the American Benson class destroyers. When the bow proved to be too wet, this group was modified to curve the deck upward. The three later (type 1934A) groups extended the bow forward causing more rake in the profile. With that difference in the hulls, modification would be needed to use a Z7 kit for a Z1 group DD, and the pilothouse would still have to be corrected. The steam pipes on the forward stack of the Z1 and Z5 groups were similar since all had the Wagner boilers. The other eight (Z9 and Z14 groups) had Benson boilers with higher temperatures and pressures. While the two groups had similar numbers of steam pipes, the patterns varied by builder. There were a number of other detail differences, so if you are building a specific ship, you need photos of that exact ship to get it right. All sixteen type 1934 and type 1934A destroyers are usually considered as a single class. But you can't mix the details from one group to another. In any case, the Trumpeter model must be corrected to depict any ship of the class.
Mike W wrote:Does anyone know of an easy fix that requires minimal surgery for the incorrect bridge on Trumpeter's 1/700 Z-7? The problem is that they have provided a bridge with rounded front when in wartime it would be a square bridge.
thanks
Mike
According to New Vanguard (Osprey) "German Destroyers 1939 - 45", Z7 (Type 34A Paul Jacobi Class) was built with a square front bridge, starting with Z6. So Trumpeter got that wrong to begin with. The Trumpeter model is more representative of the preceding class (Type 34) Z1 - Z4, and Type 34A Z5, pre-1938, after which they were all refitted with a square bridge. Maybe you could kit-bash a later date destroyer bridge.
I've got a pic that proves Z-7 had a round bridge front as built.
biggles2 wrote:According to New Vanguard (Osprey) "German Destroyers 1939 - 45", Z7 (Type 34A Paul Jacobi Class) was built with a square front bridge, starting with Z6. So Trumpeter got that wrong to begin with. The Trumpeter model is more representative of the preceding class (Type 34) Z1 - Z4, and Type 34A Z5, pre-1938, after which they were all refitted with a square bridge. Maybe you could kit-bash a later date destroyer bridge.
New Vanguard still doesn't have it quite right. The type 1934 and 1934A destroyers can be divided into 4 groups by builder. Z1 to Z4 were built by Deutcshe Werke in Kiel. Z5 to Z8 were built by Deschimag in Bremen. Z9 to Z13 were built by Germania Werft in Kiel. And Z14 to Z16 were built by Blohm and Voss in Hamburg. All four of the Z1 group were built with the rounded bridge. Of the Z5 group, Z5 to Z7 were built with the rounded bridge. These seven all had the original more vertical bow as built as well, as did some of the later sisters. However, the "rounded bridge" is not at all as depicted by Trumpeter. The pilothouse, the lower part with the windows, was always square. It was only the open bridge above the pilothouse that was rounded. I have plenty of photos of all of them to prove it. As you said, the upper bridges were all squared by the end of 1938.
Each group had its unique identifiers only a few of which I will mention here. The Z1 group (type 1934) was built with a rounded edge to the forecastle deck, similar to the deck edge on the American Benson class destroyers. When the bow proved to be too wet, this group was modified to curve the deck upward. The three later (type 1934A) groups extended the bow forward causing more rake in the profile. With that difference in the hulls, modification would be needed to use a Z7 kit for a Z1 group DD, and the pilothouse would still have to be corrected. The steam pipes on the forward stack of the Z1 and Z5 groups were similar since all had the Wagner boilers. The other eight (Z9 and Z14 groups) had Benson boilers with higher temperatures and pressures. While the two groups had similar numbers of steam pipes, the patterns varied by builder. There were a number of other detail differences, so if you are building a specific ship, you need photos of that exact ship to get it right. All sixteen type 1934 and type 1934A destroyers are usually considered as a single class. But you can't mix the details from one group to another. In any case, the Trumpeter model must be corrected to depict any ship of the class.
TBH, it doesn't have to be 100% accurate, it's just the round bridge sticks out like a proverbial sore thumb. Sadly Trumpeter have moulded the central part as a one piece, so you can't just swap the front piece and I don't want to render another kit unbuildable because I've used a part or parts from it. I'm guessing there's no easy fix then?
After starting this kit, I happened on this thread, and the round-bridge/square bridge issue stopped me in my tracks. I already had two colors of paint set aside for turrets. The excellent and enjoyable German Naval Camouflage, Vols I & II by Leon and Asmussen have me on a Zerstorer construction kick.
So, after a slight delay, I'm converting my Z7 to a war-time square-bridge. May wind up as either Z7 (operation Cerberus) with blue turrets, or as Z11, with yellow turrets. May have to get another one of these...
I'm quite inexpirienced in ship modelling, therefore I chose to build Trumpeters Z-25 as my next project as it looks to be a relative businesslike and uncluttered vessel.
However, I don't know if I can trust Trumpeter on the painting directions? I've tried to Google for information and searched the site but I either did something wrong in the search parameters or the info is elusive! I found everything And more than I ever want to know on the camouflage of German helmets, though!
World the vertical surfaces have been painted in one shade of gray or in different shades for hull and deckhouses and such? Which DKM shade(s) should I use?
Was the walking surface on and around the bridge wood or Linoleum?
Is it me or do all the Trumpeter German destroyers miss off the crow's nest? The Dragon destroyers have them and it is a small but noticeable detail.....
thanks
Mike
A list of available kits and gallery entries have been added to the first post on Page 1. If I'm missing anything (I seem to recall Samek having 1/700 kits?), please let me know.
Martin
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
can anyone let me know the LENGTH in total of the completed Model Z.26 by Dragon , please in 1/350 scale
so I know the size of replacement
brass pedestal I need to order ?
I need some advice about z-28 armament in her final form.
In the first drawing I can view
- 1 single 20 mm
- 2 double 20 mm with shield or 2 single 3.7 cm/69 Flak M42?
- 2 double 3.7 cm/83 SK C/30
- 2 single 20 mm
- 2 Vierling
German Destroyers of World War II : Gerhard Koop Klaus - Peter Schmolke
Vom Original zum Modell, Die deutschen Zerst�rer 1935-1945 : Gerhard Koop Klaus - Peter Schmolke
In the second drawing
- 1 single 20 mm
- 2 single 3.7 cm/69 Flak M42 �or M43?
- 2 double 20 mm with shield
- 2 double 3.7 cm/69 Flak M42 �or M43?
- 2 single 3.7 cm/69 Flak M42 �or M43?
- 2 single 3.7 cm/69 Flak M42 �or M43?
- 1 Vierling
- 1 single 20 mm German Warships 1815-1945 Vol. 1 Erich Gr�ner
The Trumpeter Z-28 is similar to first drawing but no identical.
Other doubt is about the extended upper level of the bridge, in the second drawing.
Thanks in advance!
Last edited by mpgl62 on Tue Aug 08, 2017 6:08 pm, edited 10 times in total.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
MartinJQuinn wrote:Please include a source for the drawings...
I apologize.
First drawing is from Koop (same drawings in two books). In the second book there are also a detailed drawing of Z-28 but in original configuration.
Second drawing I don�t remember. I find it some time ago in internet. I will try to find the source.
I could not find any photos of the Z-28 in 1944 or 1945, for confirming the correct configuration. Certainly Koop seems more reliable, but the other drawing is interesting.
guys, are there good plans of Z33 - specifically top down, and also the placement of the waterline (boot topping width). I have trouble placing it on the 1/700 kit from Trumpeter (it is a Z37, but I make Z33 from it).
Should the boot topping line be above hull break line, or below or in between? Id prefer it for the pursposes of how the hull fits (BADLY) to place it above or below the hull break if I could...
Could anyone advise on a couple of color questions please?
Just planning to start a Z-26, and wondering about the colored gunshields/turrets. I read these were based on theatre (yellow for Norway, red for France) and the decision of full shield or just the roof was at the discretion of the Captain. However most models I see just have fully grey shields, so assume the bright color was removed as the war progressed?
Also, the funnel caps are noted as silver color, do we know if it was painted or was this a natural finish such as zinc plated steel? (which would make technical sense)
Any advice on either of the above would be greatly appreciated
Anyone have pics or camo schemes for Z-10 Hans Lody in 1943? I've got the bow, but I can't find anything for the midships or stern. Thanks for any info!
ijnfleetadmiral wrote:Anyone have pics or camo schemes for Z-10 Hans Lody in 1943? I've got the bow, but I can't find anything for the midships or stern. Thanks for any info!
