Yet Another One! Trumpy 1/200 Arizona

[hondaman117]

USS_arizona_zpsdsel4uwb by Nelson Wallace, on Flickr

Hello!

I've finally finished with Engineering school, so I thought a good celebration would be to finally get started on my Arizona!

Progress is initially going to be slow as I am starting my career and will be having a lot of changes to my life in the next few months, but I am hoping to still make good progress and can get her finished in a reasonable amount of time. As added incentive, I have my 1/200 Hood on pre-order that will be shipping relatively soon, so I need to finish my Arizona before I ever start on Hood.

I've got a simple plan for the Arizona:

1. No major kit mods. I want her to be accurate, but I'm not going to hack apart the hull to correct the shape. In the end it will look like the Arizona and I am happy with that. I will do various mods that I feel I can easily make to the kit.

2. NO RIVET COUNTING! I'm not going to make myself hate this kit in an effort to super detail it.

3. I'm still deciding between doing the January 1941 scheme or the ever controversial Dec. 7 scheme. Leaning towards the January 1941 due to there being no confusion about how the ship looked at this time.

4. Have fun! I got a little burned out on my Bismarck due to school, I don't want that to happen with this one.


Now that that is taken care of, I am still working on gathering parts for the kit. I am going to purchase the BIG ED set for the Zona once I start working and have some money I can part with. I am also going to go with the Artwox deck. Due to urging by Mark, I put in an order for Bob's Buckles to use for the rigging, and I will get EZ line for the rigging. I still am not sure what paints I am going to use, that will partially depend on which scheme I decide to build her in. Other than that I may use a few 3D printed parts, and I have some plans on trying to build my own 3D printed parts.

One promise I have made myself was to make sure I keep this thread updated. I let my Bismarck thread go unattended for months and I told my self I would never do that again.

Thanks everybody for stopping by & let the comments fly!

Nelson

[hondaman117]

Not wanting to clutter up my intro post, here's my first batch of photos.

First things first: I didn't realize how big this kit really was before I had it in my hands. I thought the 1/350 Bismarck was big, but this thing dwarfs it! After the initial shock subsided I opened up the box and made sure everything was included like it should be.

I decided to start with the hull first since I have none of the PE I need for the ship. I didn't want to start without that to make sure I didn't miss any details I need to add to the superstructure. So I started with the easy but tedious task of drilling portholes out. I got this completed quickly, and then I realized that something didn't look quite right with my kit.

IMG_5945_zpstuti8t6j by Nelson Wallace, on Flickr


My kit has a very large hole in the main deck and walls as you can see in this picture:

IMG_5951_zps8gh8qhoj by Nelson Wallace, on Flickr


I borrowed this picture from Jeff Sharp's build thread. His kit looks like every other Arizona kit I have ever seen (minus his scratchbuilt parts). The main deck is flat and the boat deck is supported by the outer casemate walls.

photo_zpsdfcvgctv by Nelson Wallace, on Flickr


As you can see, there is a very large difference between my kit and a "normal" kit. I was curious, So I started checking other parts. The boat deck has a recess molded in, and the funnel has a ring molded on to fit into this ring vs. a normal kit has the funnel rest on the main deck.

IMG_5953_zpsk1rsompe by Nelson Wallace, on Flickr


I'm not sure what to think about these differences. It appears I got a unicorn of a kit, either a really early production kit, or a really new kit that had a design change. I'm a little worried that this will make the wooden deck hard to fit when I get to that point. I see three options to fix this:

1. Fill in the giant hole in the main deck, cut away the walls behind the secondary mounts and add wall from the AZ plans on Tracy's website. Use the tabs from the funnel to make the boat deck flat like a normal kit. This plan would take a lot of materials and work, but then the wooden decks would fit normally and the kit would be constructed normally.

2. Leave kit as is and attach the funnel before the wooden deck for the boat deck goes on so it fits right. Cut the wooden deck around the kits walls on the main deck so they fit. This would take a lot less work, but make working on the funnel more difficult as I would have to add all PE and parts to it with the deck attached and the wooden deck installed making painting difficult.

3. Email Squadron and see if the will exchange my kit for another one. This is not likely as I've opened my kit and drilled holes in it.

I'm still thinking about what to do, any advice or ideas are appreciated!

Nelson

[gott_cha]

Good to see another Arizona build and do hope you get along with it quiet well

I was gifted the kit a few weeks ago as an early BD/F's day gift from one of the kids. I had opened the kit and ogled over it a few minutes before closing it back up without close inspection other than to make sure it was all there. My plan is to use the Artwok deck and the BigEd PE set also. My kit also had some basic PE , chain and Gun Barrels..did yours?

Well now after you posting the "changes" that are present in yours..I reopened mine to observe the same very thing with the deck hole and casement walls. I looked back over at Mgunns Pennsy conversion WIP and it seems so does his.
Now I haven't bought any AM parts for this kit yet so I can't check for possible interference problems as far as the wood deck in concerned. If there is going to be a problem in that area I hope the solution is an easy one that don't require much cutting and sawing of plastic. Currently I'm working a 1/350 Pennsy 1942 conversion and it's already proven to be a PIA. So yeah I want this 1/200 Arizona of mine to be a smooth clean enjoyable build.

Anyway, am looking forward to following your build and to see how you address those problem areas.

Nelson do keep us informed

[hondaman117]

Hello Mark,

Mine did come with the barrels, PE, and chains. I'm either going to find a Trumpeter upgrade kit or a Master Barrels kit for the secondaries, I'm not thrilled with how the plastic versions look on the sprues. Actually, one of my possible ideas to 3D print is to model correct anchor chain for the anchors. One of the Arizona's anchors is on display 30 minutes from where I live, so I'm going to get dimensions from the chain links and model them in 1/200 scale. Thinking of doing the same with the screws, still working on getting plans.

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one with a kit like this, I was getting worried because I spent a good amount of time looking for pictures of the kit, and none looked like mine. I've been following Mgunns build, and his appears to be the "old" style kit based on his post at the top of page 3 of the thread. But he did have to do some kit mods to make the Shapeways Pennsy funnel work with the kit. I may end up doing something similar to make this different Arizona kit work.

Hopefully I will have some progress to post soon!

Nelson

[Mgunns]

Hello Nelson:

This is definitely a different molding. I am thinking it is a newer molding as the kit was out of production for awhile. See my PM for further comments.
The mods I made to my Pennsylvania build to accommodate the shapeways stack was to fill in the hole on the boat deck for the stack with sheet plastic, as the shapeways stack is measured from the boat deck, not the main deck whereas the Kit stack is designed to pass through the boat deck and nest in the main deck stack receptacle, (for lack of a better term). This kit looks like the stack is designed to rest on the boat deck as it has that ridge around the circumference of the stack at the boat deck level. Hmmmmmmm! Floating drydock has 3D printed chain to more accurately represent anchor chain. Scope out their website: http://floatingdrydock.com/more.htm and scroll down to the stud link chain section.
Looking forward to following your build log.

[taskforce48]

That molding does not match mine either. I am curious, there was talk/rumor that Trumpeter was retooling this kit to do a late war Pennsylvania. Without having plans in front of me, the outline looks more in line to accommodate the deck after it was modified to carry 5/38's. Maybe this is a sign that is still in the works? What is the date on the box or instructions?

Very interested,

Matt

[hondaman117]

I was leaning towards thinking it was a new kit due to the lack of any pictures that looked like my kit. There's no date on the instructions. The only date on the box says 2010, but it's entirely possible for the box to be older.

I've looked at the floating drydock chains, and they're my second choice. The engineer in me really wants to model the actual chain to have a perfect scale chain haha.

[taskforce48]

It's going to be an issue as there isn't clearance for the breech of the 5/51's, so you will need to remove some of those walls. The only other reason I can come up with for the strange change is perhaps for an RC market?

Matt

[hondaman117]

It's going to be an issue as there isn't clearance for the breech of the 5/51's, so you will need to remove some of those walls. The only other reason I can come up with for the strange change is perhaps for an RC market?

Matt

Yeah I noticed that too. The instructions show all of the 5/51s pointing out to the side, but they will likely not fit in the stored position. I guess I'll lead the charge on how to modify the "new" Arizona kits! haha.

It's possible that this could be changes for an R/C kit, the lower hull has lots of mounting bosses formed in for motors and servos. Not sure if they are in the older kits or not. All the part numbers on the box and parts match so it's definitely the right parts.

[gott_cha]

Hello Mark,

Mgunns build, and his appears to be the "old" style kit based on his post at the top of page 3 of the thread. But he did have to do some kit mods to make the Shapeways Pennsy funnel work with the kit. I may end up doing something similar to make this different Arizona kit work.

Nelson

Ok I was thinking the "old style" was more similar to the deck on the 1/350 kit..which the funnel just sat on and not into. And not being able to see the open casement area on MGunns build,and the "ring" around his kits funnel, led me to believe His was the same as yours/mine.
Being the casement area is one big opening,..it would make sense it was intended for the RC crowd to access the battery packs and such. If that is true then there shouldn't be any other major differences between the kits ...with the rest of the parts being common.... I hope.

The trumpeter upgrade set seems as scarce as hen's teeth and maybe due to the PE and Primary barrels being included in the kit it's no longer being produced? ..but Sprue Bros. and Free-time Hobbies currently stock the Master Models secondaries.
I second what Mark said about the chains over at Floating Drydock..those are nice.
White Ensign make a nice PE Anchor Chain plate, But Jeff Sharp came up with a more accurate solution in his build.

[Mgunns]

I decided to start with the hull first since I have none of the PE I need for the ship. I didn't want to start without that to make sure I didn't miss any details I need to add to the superstructure. So I started with the easy but tedious task of drilling portholes out. I got this completed quickly, and then I realized that something didn't look quite right with my kit.



Here is the hull in my kit: Note the differences



As you can see, there is a very large difference between my kit and a "normal" kit. I was curious, So I started checking other parts. The boat deck has a recess molded in, and the funnel has a ring molded on to fit into this ring vs. a normal kit has the funnel rest on the main deck.



Here you can see my stack as it sits in the main deck, note the absence of a locating ring:



Here is the Shapeways Stack as situated on the boat deck. It doesn't reach down to the main deck to sit in the locating ring as the kit stack does, so a compromise had to be reached.

Obviously, Trumpeter has released two variations of this kit. Which is the earlier kit and which is the later kit is all speculation. It would be interesting to see the instruction sheet and see how Trumpeter would want the modeler to proceed at that assembly step. Nelson, can you post a pic of the instruction sheet at that step? It would also seem that the 5" 50 Casemate guns have to displayed in the "Stowed" position, aft guns facing aft and forward guns facing forward. Which, unless the modeler is doing a diorama, is how the guns would be stowed normally, so that doesn't seem to be a problem. The issue is with the wooden decks made for the "other" Trumpeter release. The modeler now is required to adjust and cut out the portion for the casemate guns.
More modeling conundrums for the modeler to deal with.

[Jeff Sharp]

Hmm! Very strange indeed! I don't see any benefit to changing the mold to this design other than you can no longer see through the casmates to the other side. But, if this is supposed to represent the inside bulkheads, the design is all wrong.

[hondaman117]

Thanks for the side-by-side comparison Mark! It really helps to show the differences.

Here's the page I think you were referring to in the instructions:

IMG_5954_zpsnmmwizbi by Nelson Wallace, on Flickr

It appears they want the guns displayed in the attack position rather than the stored position. Looking at the kit I do not think the breeches will clear this bulkhead to put them in the stored position. I'm starting to think I will end up cutting out this bulkhead and rebuilding from plans. There's also a place where this bulkhead interferes with the boat deck, but I don't have a picture of it. Ill try getting one gun out and seeing how it fits later this week.

I think I will end up modifying the funnel and mounting it similar to Mark's Pennsy. Seems to be the only way to make sure the boat deck can be built without the funnel already attached.

In other news, I went to order the Big Ed PE set for her, but Freetime is out of stock, and Squadron does not appear to carry that set anymore. I found it on Amazon, but it was marked up $50. Looks like I will be ordering it from Sprue Bros as they're the only ones I've found with it in stock and at a reasonable price. Going to grab some EZ Line and other small things as well. I'm going to wait until I have a stable paycheck to order the Artwox deck. But my Bob's buckles order arrived!

IMG_5947_zpsrnwh5aps by Nelson Wallace, on Flickr

[Mgunns]

Hi Nelson:

IT looks like you could cut the bulkhead portion out of the model and before you fix the lower hull to the main hull you could make a deck using sheet styrene. That way you wouldn't have to modify your wooden deck and the outer bulwarks will still provide the support for the boat deck and you could display the guns in the stowed position. You would have to build some internal bulkheads like Jeff Sharpe did on his build, but that's easy.
I hope you like using the Bob's Buckles eyelets and tubes. I use a stick pin and enlarge the eyelet a bit for easier rigging.

[hondaman117]

Through some research I think I can safely conclude that this kit is from a new production run that is redesigned for R/C use.

Here's my reasons:

1. Compared to pictures on the internet, the lower hull section of my kit has TONS more mounting bosses for R/C parts molded in.

2. The large opening in the top hull would be very convenient for changing batteries.

3. The kit has bosses towards the ends of the ship, and the instructions specify to hold the sections together with screws instead of glue. This would make it possible to get the ship apart easily if electronic components need to be changed.

4. If you get on Squadron's website you will see that an R/C Arizona is available for the low, low price of $800 . I don't think this was available when the kit originally came out.

That's my reasoning for my discoveries. I've been thinking about what to do, and I am too worried about the wooden deck and other parts not fitting to leave the kit as is. I've got me PE and Artwox deck on the way, they should be here this weekend. I'm going to get the deck out and compare it to the kit to see how far different they are. I've ordered some sheet styrene and am going to rebuild the decks so that the kit can be assembled like the old kits, eliminating any fit problems with the Artwox deck. This will also eliminate the possible interference with the 5"/51 guns and the new bulkhead and the problems with mounting the funnel. Plus, after building the inner casemate bulkheads the perfectionist in me will be satisfied!

I will post pictures of my findings this weekend!

[gott_cha]

I agree with cutting out the casement walls and rebuilding that deck area..it "seems" very straightforward with no unforeseen problems. As Mgunns said it could be sectioned out like Jeff Sharp did. And with whatever "engineering" additions you are going to add it should be perfect.
Guess I will hold off ordering my deck until we find out what remedy you come up with.

You know, if this kit is for RC, you would think Trumpeter would mold the lower hull a little better. Mine seems a bit short at the bow and has a large gap on the rear starboard side Looks like it was pulled from the mold too soon before it had time to setup. No biggie...just a Trumpeter complaint.

Thanks for keeping us updated.

[davidwaples]

I'm wondering about the difference between the base of the Trumpeter stack and the Shapeways stack and how it fits on the Artwox deck? Can you give us a comparison?
Thank you
Dave

[Mgunns]

I'm wondering about the difference between the base of the Trumpeter stack and the Shapeways stack and how it fits on the Artwox deck? Can you give us a comparison?
Thank you
Dave

Hello Dave:

See my build log on converting the 1/200 Arizona to a Pennsylvania. The stacks from Shapeways for both the PA and AZ are designed the same. I have explained what the differences are and what measures I took to accommodate the Shapeways stack.

[davidwaples]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reference. I just read through your build. It doesn't look like I'll have any trouble mounting the stack over the Artwox deck.
Dave

[Mgunns]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the reference. I just read through your build. It doesn't look like I'll have any trouble mounting the stack over the Artwox deck.
Dave

Good Deal, it's an easy fix and actually gives the modeler a license for fitting it properly.