Model Monkey Sneak Peeks

[Joe Ellias]

Hello Steve,
Are you planning on including the rails on the cigarette decks?
Joe

[ModelMonkey]

Hello Steve,
Are you planning on including the rails on the cigarette decks?
Joe

Thanks, Joe!

I'll certainly be designing the rails. I think we're good in 1/144 and larger.

Being long and thin, Shapeways would call the components of the rail "wires". The minimum wire thickness Shapeways can print is 0.6mm in diameter. The minimum wire thickness Shapeways' printers can clean by hand without tearing up the parts is typically 0.8mm in diameter, overscale for 1/350 scale. The minimum wire thickness for any part that carries weight is 1.0mm in diameter.

When a design is uploaded to Shapeways, their design analysis software evaluates the design immediately and would accept the rails as printable if the wires of the rails were at least 0.6mm in diameter. After the first order is placed, a human "print engineer", the guy or gal who actually prints it and cleans it by hand after printing, would evaluate the design before printing using software that measures each feature.

If any wire feature is less than 0.8mm in diameter, the human print engineer would reject the design stating that it wouldn't survive cleaning and handling. Shapeways would cancel the order frustrating the customer. If that happens, Shapeways will send me an email describing why the order was rejected.

Sometimes a rejection happens for a minor, inconspicuous feature easily thickened. I can thicken that feature quickly and the updated design is made available the same day for re-ordering. But I think in-scale rails are very thin to begin with in 1/350, maybe too thin to thicken yet make look right. We'll just have to see how the 1/350 rails look once I get them done. Let's hope for the best.

[Aop Aur]

For 1/350, PE should do the job. Though it might not exist as there are no Balao class kit out there (or would Gato PE fit?) Nevertheless, generic rails should be fine, or to be more accurate, construct stanchions and add horizontal wires by rigging, etc. So, that should not be a problem! You could include them in the design if you can for those who are OK with overscale rails, and those that would replace them and need stanchion positions. I think I will wait for another free-shipping promotion so I could get your island cheaper (it's $19.99 shipping fee to get them here in Thailand!)

Keep up the nice designs!

Aop

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks, Aop!

Here's the design at about 75% complete. Ammunition lockers and further details have been added.

There will actually be two versions to choose from:

1. Mid-war suitable for USS Balao SS-285 with "short" aft cigarette deck and "short" periscope pedestal
2. Late-war suitable for USS Lionfish SS-298 with "long" aft cigarette deck, "long" periscope pedestal, and additional ammunition lockers for a significantly increased AA fit

If desired, modelers can easily make minor changes to these two representative designs to better replicate the specific features of fairwaters of most boats of the class.

The design you see below is for a late-war Lionfish.

[ModelMonkey]

Here are some renderings so you can see the conspicuous differences between the two major types of Balao class fairwater designs.

The large cylinders protruding fore and aft I believe to be ammunition lockers. The hinge and door reinforcement for the ammunition locker on the front of Balao will be changed to a different configuration (two horizontal beams rather than two sloped beams that join at one end). The locker you see on Balao is a place-holder for one with a different hinge just to give you some idea of what Balao had, and didn't have, compared to Lionfish.

Among the many details yet to be designed: deck planking, rails, periscope tops, lookout stands, interior instrumentation on the open bridge, and a whole lot of rivets, and more.

Some of the features you see here will be tweaked a bit, the width of the aft cigarette deck extension on Lionfish will be widened, for example, but the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel is in view.

[Admiral John Byng]

Nice! If I remember correctly at least one of the cylindrical protrusions held an inflatable boat/life raft. I will see if I can find the source for this.

[Romad601]

Very, very nice, Steve. Count me in on the 1/200 version, for sure. Now if we just had some 5in/25 deck guns, as well as some 40mm Bofors in 1/200, we'ed be all set ( hint, hint).

Also, a question - would it be possible to get the DD 5 inch gun & housing done in 1/160 for the old Lindberd USS Carronade? I've collected bits of that kit over the years, but need the turret.

Thanks In advance.

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks, fellas!

Very, very nice, Steve. Count me in on the 1/200 version, for sure. Now if we just had some 5in/25 deck guns, as well as some 40mm Bofors in 1/200, we'ed be all set ( hint, hint).

Also, a question - would it be possible to get the DD 5 inch gun & housing done in 1/160 for the old Lindberd USS Carronade? I've collected bits of that kit over the years, but need the turret.

Thanks In advance.

For the 5"/25, help obtaining accurate 2D, dimensioned drawings from which to make the 3D design are needed, and in 1/200, it may not be printable by Shapeways.

I'm going to pass on the Bofors. A very nice set is available in brass from GPM of Poland. Highly recommended, but a bit fiddly to assemble.
photoetch: http://sklep.gpm.pl/en/akcesoria/fototr ... alka/1/200
barrels: http://sklep.gpm.pl/en/accessories/barrels/1/200/usa

Regarding the gun for the Lindberg Carronade ("Bobtail Cruiser"?), no problem. I'm thinking it needs a single-knuckle (lightweight). Please confirm or deny that's correct.

[ModelMonkey]

why would the 5"/25cal may not be printable because of size? if because of large size, why not make it in 2 parts, the gun itself & the mount so gun can be glued at any angle?

Not too large, it's too small. Other than the barrel, its smaller features on the mount may be too fine for Shapeways to clean without damage. Won't know for sure until I can see dimensioned drawings.

Carronade's gun shield is a single knuckle. http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/06/100600104.jpg.

Thanks, David!

[ModelMonkey]

...Also, a question - would it be possible to get the DD 5 inch gun & housing done in 1/160 for the old Lindberd USS Carronade? I've collected bits of that kit over the years, but need the turret.

Thanks In advance.

You are all set!

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/model_m ... ndberg&s=0

Thanks so much!

[ModelMonkey]

talk to carl as I know he does 5"/25cal guns in 1/426 scale & smaller plus maybe 1/350.
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/guncat/cat-0182.htm
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/guncat/index.htm

Two issues:

1. Carl's guns, superb that they are, are of a different type.
2. Even if research materials were on hand to complete the design, Shapeways cannot produce the gun in small scales. The features are too fine and it would be destroyed during cleaning. It probably can only be printed in 1/144 scale and larger.

About the type, the 5"/25 deck guns of submarines had features distinctly different than those of surface combatants (those shown in the HNSA catalog). Here's a NavSource photo of USS Besugo, SS-321, with submarine-type 5"/25s on deck. Significant differences of this design compared to surface guns include the two recoil cylinders, lack of a mount platform and an interesting feature like a canopy above the gun barrel but not the breech.

From photos alone, the dimensions, extents and connections of these features cannot be drawn in 3D with any accuracy. The size and shape of the breech, carriage, turntable, trunnion, and sighting details cannot be fully understood or measured. The barrel's outer dimensions and how it narrows from breech to muzzle can only be guessed at. The barrel's length can be assumed to be 125" but not known for certain where the measurement begins at or near the breech end.

Dimensioned, 2D drawings of this specific gun must be had to evaluate the mount for printability and if it's good, draw it in 3D.

[whaynes]

I'm definitely in for a 1/72 Balao conning tower and a 5" 25ca. deck gun. Can't wait!! How about a 20 mm as well ?
Walt Haynes

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks, Walt!

There are insufficient references to make an accurate 5"/25 (see post above).

Good news: 20mm Oerlikons are available now in 1/200 scale by RBModel and Master Model. See:

http://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-ship ... -rb-200g01

http://www.master-model.pl/index.php?pa ... 56&lang=en

[whaynes]

Floating Drydock has an ordinance pamphlet on 5" 25 cal. sub mount deck gun.

[ModelMonkey]

Excellent, David, thank you!

I'll take a look and see what can be done. If they are good for 1/200 and larger, it may be a while before I can get to them. The queue is very full. I am very certain that Shapeways cannot print them in 1/350 or 1/700. Please patronize 3DModelparts.com.

Thanks for the encouragement, Walt and David!

[ModelMonkey]

Balao at about 90% complete. Lionfish will be completed after Balao.

Riveting took three days full time, much longer than expected. Lionfish's riveting pattern is a bit different.

Some of the features you see here will be tweaked a bit yet to better match photos. But you can get an idea of how the fairwater will look completed.

The photos of Balao at bottom were taken when she carried Oerlikons. Later, her aft cigarette deck was enlarged to carry a single Bofors. The enlargement extended outwards but not aft. The model depicts the fairwater's aft cigarette deck after the enlargement, ready for a Bofors.

[Cliffy B]

talk to carl as I know he does 5"/25cal guns in 1/426 scale & smaller plus maybe 1/350.
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/guncat/cat-0182.htm
http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/guncat/index.htm

Carl's guns, superb that they are, are of a different type.

The 5"/25 deck guns of submarines had features distinctly different than those of surface combatants (those shown in the HNSA catalog). Here's a NavSource photo of USS Besugo, SS-321, with submarine-type 5"/25s on deck. Significant differences of this design compared to surface guns include the two recoil cylinders, lack of a mount platform and an interesting feature like a canopy above the gun barrel but not the breech.

From photos alone, the dimensions, extents and connections of these features cannot be drawn in 3D with any accuracy. The size and shape of the breech, carriage, turntable, trunnion, and sighting details cannot be fully understood or measured. The barrel's outer dimensions and how it narrows from breech to muzzle can only be guessed at. The barrel's length can be assumed to be 125" but not known for certain where the measurement begins at or near the breech end.

Dimensioned, 2D drawings of this specific gun must be had to evaluate the mount for printability and if it's good, draw it in 3D.

4-View Drawing sans measurements
http://www.bergall.org/5-25.jpg

Pampanito's Restoration Log
https://www.maritime.org/pres/fiveinch/index.htm

USN Manual FULL of drawings!
https://www.maritime.org/tech/drawings/ ... /index.htm

Anyway you could make some for 1/700 as well pleeeeeease?!

[Joe Ellias]

Wow! These look great. I'm planning to buy these in multiple scales. Thanks Steve.

[whaynes]

This looks fantastic, can't wait for its release.
Walt

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks, David, Cliffy, Joe and Walt!

Here is the design at 95% complete. The shape of the aft cigarette deck has been improved to better replicate USS Balao's as it appeared in very late 1944-1945. A slat cutout for the hatch, and a bracket for binoculars have been added. The deck is slatted, not planked.

So far, no authoritative, dimensioned 2D drawings have been found from which to design periscopes that would be more accurate than what is already in the kits. Furthermore, including periscopes adds to the cost. I think it may be best for the modeler to use the kit periscopes instead.

Many different submarines of the class can be built from this design. For those who would like to build Balao specifically, she had two different weapon configurations appropriate for this design:
- One 20mm Oerlikon forward and one 40mm Bofors aft
- Two 40mm Bofors, one forward and one aft.

Last major features to design: lookout stands, some interior instrumentation, exterior details and the rails.