What-If IJN AA cruiser

able · Post by **able** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 3:22 am

warspite63 · Post by **warspite63** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:51 pm

Love the Yasakuni (at least, I've seen that name applies elsewhere on the Web) - excellent detailing. I think these gunhouses work much better than the Akizuki ones I've seen in drawings

Seasick · Post by **Seasick** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:31 am

IJN could have really used her in 1944-1945. Nice concept. The type 89 12.7cm gun as the main armament sort of a IJN Dido class or Atlanta class.

warspite63 · Post by **warspite63** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:43 pm

I dunno how 'real' the project was, but a diagram I found in the Interwbs described the main armament as the 3.9" (100mm) weapon as fitted to the Akizuki class DD's. Either way, the model is fantastic!

ijnfleetadmiral · Post by **ijnfleetadmiral** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 4:42 pm

Here's a drawing of something similar:

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/ijnfleet ... i_1944.png

Vlad · Post by **Vlad** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 5:20 pm

Now that's what I call a turret farm

and yet still manages to have that IJN grace about it. Nice build!

GMG4RWF · Post by **GMG4RWF** » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:27 pm

Nice, the 3 per side may be a bit heavy. Though that's a 12-15,000 tn hull, Is that a Mogami or Chitose hull? Mogami/Tone type superstructure. A late war 10cm-twin AA Cruiser would be interesting, I do like the 12.7cm/40 enclosed smoke shield turrets on this one, they look great.

able · Post by **able** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:30 am

The AAcruiser is base on IJN light cruiser Yahagi, and use type 89 gun.

I'm planning other one which base on Oyodo, and use type 98 gun.

GMG4RWF · Post by **GMG4RWF** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:23 am

able wrote:The AAcruiser is base on IJN light cruiser Yahagi, and use type 89 gun.
I'm planning other one which base on Oyodo, and use type 98 gun.

Yahagi - oh - I thought it was a Mogami. The Yahagi was only 7,000tn about the same as the Atlantas, who were overweight with only 8 turrets. The Isuzu was nearl 6,000tn and only had 3. Each of those 12.7cm/40 twin turrets weighs over 20tn (the smaller 12cm twins were 20tn) that puts this ship way over weight. I thought the Mogami would be overweight with 12 mounts. Remember on the Oyodo that the 10cm/65 twin turrets were 38tn each.

able · Post by **able** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:42 pm

GMG4RWF wrote:
able wrote:The AAcruiser is base on IJN light cruiser Yahagi, and use type 89 gun.
I'm planning other one which base on Oyodo, and use type 98 gun.
Yahagi - oh - I thought it was a Mogami. The Yahagi was only 7,000tn about the same as the Atlantas, who were overweight with only 8 turrets. The Isuzu was nearl 6,000tn and only had 3. Each of those 12.7cm/40 twin turrets weighs over 20tn (the smaller 12cm twins were 20tn) that puts this ship way over weight. I thought the Mogami would be overweight with 12 mounts. Remember on the Oyodo that the 10cm/65 twin turrets were 38tn each.

GMG4RWF · Post by **GMG4RWF** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 am

Those aren't pre-made kits??? Well, sure they're long enough, but they have much lighter structure and are over 15� (5m) thinner, that�s about the diameter of the gun mounts. You also have to consider that each of those mounts have to have barbettes, ammo hoists & mag spaces. That�s a lot of internal volume and above-waterline weight. You might could cram them in, but you would lose a lot of space for the engines, fuel and stores, making a slower, top heavy, unstable, short range ship. - build is very good though.

MatthewB · Post by **MatthewB** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:22 am

What the???

I have been recently reading about the Japanese during WWII, and how they completely screwed up after their initial successes in underestimating the effect of Air Power (and doing things like making an AA Cruiser - the Isuzu - but then putting it on ASW Patrol, instead of Escorting the few Carriers that remained).

And that isn't all. Their plans for their Light Cruisers were pretty much a fantasy when looked at in terms of overall performance and capability.

The IJN needed to build AA Cruisers, and they needed to stop dreaming of repeating Tsushima.

I think the AA Cruiser design here is a bit optimistic in terms of what a ship that size could carry (those look like the AA Turrets from the Yamato, which would have been too heavy for Light Cruiser hulls of the IJN).

But the idea is the correct direction, at least.

I have been thinking about using my other old Fujimi Nagara to create an IJN "What if?" ship.

I have been thinking about putting a couple of regular 2-gun turrets on it (maybe three, to keep the six-gun broadside), and then a larger AA fit, and a smaller Torpedo fit, so that it looks more like a "Regular" CL.

And then doing some AA Versions, similar to the Isuzu, but with the stacks trunked together.

MB

able · Post by **able** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 7:02 am

?????? ??????

MatthewB · Post by **MatthewB** » Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:12 pm

Beautiful, but not very realistic.

I've looked at what the IJN had to do to mount further 127mm DP guns on ships, and they usually had to strip a lot of other things from the ship due to the weight of the mounting.

The IJN really dropped the ball on underestimating the need for AA defense, while simultaneously demonstrating the dangers from the air.

MB

able · Post by **able** » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:15 pm

AAcruiser

GMG4RWF · Post by **GMG4RWF** » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:58 pm

That 2nd one looks much closer to it. 4x2 10cm fore and aft. right? I would have gone with 3 (deleting the back-to-back turrets). I made a lite upgrade of the Tatsuta. I replaced her 14cm deck mounts with 4x1 type C 12.7cm/50 DD turrets (presumably removed from Hatsuharu/Shiratsuyu class Destroyers) It occurred to me to use Type B or D twin turrets but I went with the singles for weight concerns. Probably a 6 gun combination would be more likely (twin fore and aft & single amidships positions).

MatthewB wrote: I have been recently reading about the Japanese during WWII, and how they completely screwed up after their initial successes in underestimating the effect of Air Power
The IJN needed to build AA Cruisers, and they needed to stop dreaming of repeating Tsushima.

They did recognize a need for more AA-defense. The problem came in their culture. The IJN was working (and designing) off a perverted form of Bushido. They felt that a "True Warrior" was one who "attacked and conquered". Defense was "less-than-honorable". Cruisers (and Carriers) are "attack" ships. they go out and hunt the enemy. Where Destroyers (and by definition AA-ships) are "defensive". therefore Destroyers and AA-ships are by definition "less honorable". why would you take and "honorable" cruiser and 'downgrade' it to a less honorable defense ship (probably why it was only done once)? They built new purpose-built AA-defense ships, but put that role on an already "defensive" hull, the planned Shimakaze class Destroyers. They used the same hulls and engineering being prepared for the new planned Shimakaze class but converted them to AA-Destroyers to provide AA- escorts.

Bill Clarke · Post by **Bill Clarke** » Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:36 pm

able wrote:The AAcruiser is base on IJN light cruiser Yahagi, and use type 89 gun.

I'm planning other one which base on Oyodo, and use type 98 gun.

Ahh, what are these kits? are they available?

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