Late War RN H Class DD as HMCS Chaudiere Colour Question

[George W]

I'm researching the colour of the lower hull for my fall build of a late war HMCS Chaudi�re. I believe the upper hull and superstructure is 507C. This photo dates from 1945 based on an explanation and a similar photo (pg. 240) in Friedman's British Destroyers - From the Earliest Days . . . I was originally thinking it would be 507B or similar however research in Malcolm Wright's British & Commonwealth Warship Camouflage - Destroyers, etc. given the year and type of ship that it could be PB10 (dark blue) and 507B was not referenced this late in the war. I have not come across PB10 before, does anyone know what Humbrol or MM may be equivalent to PB10?
Thank you

[JCRAY]

It is my understanding that PB 10 was most commonly used on submarines. I think late war colors are G 10 for the dark gray and G 45 for the light gray. The WEM G 45 is incorrect. You can substitute 507 C for the Light gray and MS 1 or 507 A for the dark gray. Of course, that is only my opinion.
HTH

[George W]

Thanks JCRAY, quick and informed reply after only 14 minutes!
Malcolm Wright mentions the sub usage beside his colour sample but refers to it several times for some surface ships. I'm partial to a dark shade of gray as it looks more natural and I have done enough corvettes with western approach colours so I want something conventional!

[Admhawk]

I don't know what colours these are, but it may explain why he thinks PB10 was used.

[Admhawk]

This a comparison of the S&S paint chips to a colour card in the Canadian archives for late war G45. I make no claim to the accuracy of the colour card, however, other cards did match some of the S&S chips.

[508medway]

My understanding is that the PB10 is Pure Blue with a reflectance of 10%. That reflectance is the same as 507A/G10. As far as I know it was never used on surface ships, only on subs for a limited time.

Mr Wright also says the RAN used it except there is no record of the RAN and their Camouflage unit having no record of the colour. This was at a time when the RAN used Chicago Blue which was their version of USN Blue.

Strange to say, in the same theatre of operations, the RAF also used a dark blue called Dark Mediterranean Blue.

[JCRAY]

Thanks guys! We have much misinformation being disseminated as factual.....
I don't think it's wise to guess colors only from photos.

[George W]

Thanks for the above - JCRAY, 508medway (I noticed some of my hand written paint notes have some comments from you), & Darren (glad to hear from you, I hope all is well!)
So it looks like 507C (or G45) for the upper works (I should be OK here) and 507A (or G10) for the lower hull. For the later, my painting notes indicate these colours will provide a choice - Humbrol H67, H112, or Testors TS42 gunship gray. Any comments?
Thanks again (I wasn't sure that this request would get any comments at all as it is not very mainstream!)
George

[JCRAY]

I'm still using up my WEM paints. I've used 79 for 507A and I think 147 for 507 C. Also you might want to look at MM light ghost gray for 507 C.
Good Luck

[George W]

Thanks JCRAY,
I will add those to me list and see where I end up.
Thanks again, George

[George W]

Thanks for the comments above. The attached photo is where I ended up but prior to quality control. I used the following - dark grey (507A) - H79, light grey 507C- H147, and antifouling red - WEM RN19.

The next step is the deck but am not sure if I should do light or dark, for a later war RCN DD. My research has come up with the following -
a) Atlantic is recommending G20 for their recently released later war Emergency class DD (Vigilant) (but I do not know what the Humbrol (or MM) equivalent may be,
b) Ryan Cameron used a light grey for his Chaudiere but it is an earlier time frame than mine but it does not look like a good match for MS4 which is often used for corvettes,
c) Other colours I have come across include MS-2, G10 (both are somewhat dark), and perhaps even deck green (which was recommended in Resin Shipyards Kootenay also late war).

So I somewhat confused but I am looking for perhaps a medium grey that would balance the light 407C superstructure and the dark lower hull which may be a practical or predictable camouflage approach.

Any ideas, opinions, or statements of fact

Thanks
George

[JCRAY]

I think the RN used MS 2 for the decks in the war. It's a bit lighter than 507 A. Humbrol 64 would look fine , me thinks.

[Admhawk]

Take your pic, I see med grey, med-light grey, cortecine and rust.

[George W]

Thanks JCRAY & Darren
JCRAY - That gives me a medium colour to work with. I noticed that the www.smmlonline.com site also mentions H106 (ocean grey) as MS 2 match. I own neither so I can check the LHS and pick the one I like best with Darren's picture.

Darren - This gives me lots of choice! K459 is a high enough number to be late war so it is relevant. I quickly checked a Flower corvette list and I did not see it there. So that keeps my decision in a medium gray so nothing too dark. I should use some corticene (or cemtex) in some standard places for variety.

The WEM Havelock was originally built for Brazil so I'm finding differences, it seems, with the ones built direct for the RN at least based on Ryan's ISW based one and Chaudi�re photos. I got the platform between the funnels built today which are more like the tribal class ones than Havelock's.

Thanks again
George

[Admhawk]

It's a late war photo of a river class frigate, Thetford Mines

[Admhawk]

Here's another option, Algonquin gun deck.

[JCRAY]

Thank you for posting the photos!

[George W]

Thanks Darren
Afterward I noticed the twin breaches of the gun which would have identified it also as an RCN frigate.
George

[508medway]

Thanks JCRAY,
I will add those to me list and see where I end up.
Thanks again, George

George, The Fleet Orders show that Patterns 507B, 507A and G10 are one and the same colour. The only difference being the gloss level. MS2 is probably the same colour too as it is a dark grey with a reflectance of 10% like G10 etc. However, we don't have the formulae issued for the MS colours to definitely say they are the same.

Michael

[dick]

Take your pic, I see med grey, med-light grey, cortecine and rust.

There would have been no Corticene on the weather decks of any HM destroyer by the time being modelled here (1945). By instruction of CAFO 200 of 8 Feb 1940 Corticene was to be removed as destroyers came in hand for refits and repairs and replaced with Semtex on the areas where men stood or which carried walking traffic.

We are told that by late war the colour of this had been standardised to a light green and I believe that this green colouring (somewhat dirtied and worn in places) can be seen in the colour photo of Thetford Mines (behind the gun and down on the fo�castle deck) and on Algonquin.

On the deck behind the gun on Thetford Mines there is some thick, brown coir matting to absorb the impact of ejected empty shell cases. The same sort of matting can also be seen in the background in the photo of Algonquin.

Outside the Semtex treadways the decks should have been painted (as can be seen on Thetford Mines). The prescribed or recommended colour of this deck paint varied according according to the camouflage scheme worn by the ship. MS2 can be ruled out as its use was discontinued in May 1943 (CAFO 2106).

Thetford%20Mines%20Bridge%20CT-260.jpg