Fliger747 wrote:There were various plans as to ultimate upgrades for these ships, but due to war priorities and availability some were not carried out, even ships of the same classes began to diverge in their outfit. What could have been done, what had been planned and what was accomplished varied. Grazke and Dulin for instance have some discussions on these issues. For hull work Drydock availability was critical.
Interesting ships!
Notice that generally-speaking the less damaged a ship was the less upgrading was done. The Pennsylvania was the least-damaged of the bunch, and ended up receiving minimal upgrades. The California was sunk, and ended up being completely rebuilt into a fat version of the South Dakota. The Tennessee was an exception, receiving relatively minor damage yet being completely rebuilt like the California. No doubt the fact that she was a relatively new vessel factored into the decision to completely upgrade her inside and out. The poor Pennsylvania by comparison never seemed to get enough respect and wasn't even upgraded to the degree that the Nevada was.
Had the Arizona been able to be raised and repaired she likely would have received a much more substantial rebuild than the Pennsylvania did, since she would have needed more to begin with. But then again for that to have even been possible it would've required a much less fatal hit than the one that tore her entire front half apart, meaning she would have had to have received less damage and thus possibly not need as much rebuilding in the first place. As it was, even if they could've raised her the likelihood that she would've been considered worth repairing is small. The "what-ifs" are endless.
I suspect that something else that factored into the lightly-damaged Tennessee eventually getting the full CA/WV-style rebuild is that she hadn't yet gotten her previously-scheduled refit. Maryland had already gotten hers, and Colorado was in the middle of it, but the other three of the Big Five were waiting their turns at the time of the attack, all still with their original un-bulged hulls. With the war on and a completely new modernization scheme developed for the CA and WV, I guess they figured that rather than just take TN up to the pre-war refit that she still needed anyway they'd go for the newer full monty.
Now, as for why Pennsy wasn't modernized even as far as the Nevada... probably as stated above. Pennsylvania was ready to go on patrol right away, and just kept at it (aside from relatively quick AA upgrades, then her big - but not really revolutionary - refit with the 5" twins). Nevada was going to be out for a while to get major hull damage repaired, so might as well do some more significant superstructure work at the same time.
Come to think of it, aside from the yet-to-be-installed CXAM-1 set and 1.1" quads & accompanying directors, was anything else specifically on the slate for Arizona before she was sunk? (Perhaps shields for the 5"/25s?)
Arizona commissioned 100 years ago today: October 17, 1916
Martin
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
Looking at the video above I found another interesting one on YouTube:
Whoever drew the Arizona for World of Warships did a pretty good job, and even chose to outfit her in what would have been her immediate post-Pearl refit had she survived: CXAM-1 set, 1.1" quads and deck painted in sea blue.
Last edited by Timmy C on Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:fixed youtube embed
There's plenty wrong with their digital model* and it's clear they used the Floating Drydock plans ; it just doesn't warrant commentary unless someone tries to use it as a research source for an accurate physical model.
* this is not to say it's garbage, just that it shouldn't be used as a good source for details.
I didn't mean to imply that the video would be a good source of modeling info. I was merely pointing out that in light of other video game models (which are usually quite laughable) somebody actually tried to make her look somewhat real. Seeing a video of her sailing always brings out goose bumps with me anyway, even if it's only in a PC game.
OOps, yes, you're right, of course. Missouri is more or less in line with Arizona and I brain farted and was focusing on how Burl was more or less in line with the Memorial. Burl works at the Pacific Air Museum so he has fairly good access to the island.
"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne
Here are some stills from film of Arizona in 1941. They are not the greatest looks at her but they are clearly of 1941 by the presence of the birdbath on top of the mainmast fighting top and the large yardarm on the forward fighting top.
The first two are of her making her way around Ford Island at Pearl
This next one she is at sea with a 4 piper in the foreground.
Last edited by Jeff Sharp on Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
It's been a while since I've worked on my Arizona so I've forgotten some of my research I did on paints. I'm looking for opinions on what brand people think has the best match for USN 5-S? I'd like to use an acrylic paint, but if there are no good matches then I will use an enamel.
I've been leaning towards the Model Master Acrylic, thoughts on that one?
Also, if anyone has advice for the other colors I will need (Deck Gray, Linoleum, Anti-fouling) please let me know.
Thanks!
-Nelson
Current Project:
1:200 U.S.S. Arizona
1:350 U.S.S. Chicago SSN-721
Is there evidence that she had the lines running from the foretop to the jackstaff, and the other one to the stern. I've been looking at all the images I can find and can't see them anywhere. Also, if it was there then precisely where did the forward one run from on the foretop?
phil
I was curious if anybody knows what the height of the boot topping would be? I was marking my hull and think I have it too wide so I want to double check.
Thanks,
-Nelson
Current Project:
1:200 U.S.S. Arizona
1:350 U.S.S. Chicago SSN-721
Ensign Weeden captured some color footage of her in 1941. Although it is prior to her MS-1 camo this film is definitely 1941. Here are a couple of stills.
Main Fighting top with birdbath on top.
Starboard side next to turret #4 looking forward. Notice the gun director in the upper left.
Same location but the deck is now visible. Notice the color difference on the deck.
Last edited by Jeff Sharp on Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Ensign Weeden captured some color footage of her in 1941. Although it is prior to her MS-1 camo this film is definitely 1941. Here are a couple of stills.
Main Fighting top with birdbath on top.
Starboard side next to turret #4 looking forward. Notice the gun director in the upper left.
Same location but the deck is now visible. Notice the color difference on the deck.
I looked at the footage a bit. The color difference on the deck is that it's wet from rain. The crew members are in formation and in their dress blues, one sailor is wearing a workcoat. It also looks like a change of command ceremony.
Perhaps wet from rain but how did the rain select a single seam line to end at? Or, is it a different type of wood other than teak that they were experimenting with?
Jeff Sharp wrote:Perhaps wet from rain but how did the rain select a single seam line to end at? Or, is it a different type of wood other than teak that they were experimenting with?
I don't think it was a different type of wood, maybe from the type of varnish used on the wood.
