What about the surface around the stack vents coming out of the funnel top? Do you think that would have been black too, due to soot from the funnels? I assume that's why the caps and mainmast were black.
1) Rule of thumb - Assume ONLY The Watch, keeps you out of trouble!
2. After zooming into your color photo, I think that the flat surface behind the actual large round stack opening is deck gray (same shade as the 40mm mount decks, etc). It appears that the vents coming out of that flat area within the overall stack are the same light gray shade as the stack cap itself. I would paint the inside of the various vent pipes also deck gray (if they are hollow) - that's sort of a guesstimate on those. Also, the stack cap internal divider plates and all internal surfaces are all black.
Hope this helps,
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
BB62vet wrote:Since BJS is drawing up a 3D MISSOURI in her 80s configuration he should be aware that the MK. 37 FC directors on board were updated versions of the directors as originally shipped in the '40s. Same true for NEW JERSEY. IOWA and WISCONSIN had their MK. 37s replaced/rebuilt in the 50s to the version that is aboard those ships today. Those Mods are visually different in that the director enclosure body was altered to a flat roof with a raised square body. See below:
BB62 Mainmast & After Stack 1981 (Large).jpg
Thanks, my interpretation is that all four had the same directors with 8 windows in the front. At some time, the IA and WI had theirs replaced with ones with a cupola on the left side.
I'm still looking for measured drawing of these directors though.
Thanks, my interpretation is that all four had the same directors with 8 windows in the front. At some time, the IA and WI had theirs replaced with ones with a cupola on the left side.
Yes - The cupula on the Mk. 37 was a WWII era mod, still present on BB63. I think you need to look over the photos of MISSOURI in her '80s configuration only; don't waste your time with other eras of the ship. If you have the Floating Drydock's USS MISSOURI Plan Book (or EPlan Book) then you can get the basic measurements of the director from that. Some times too much "associated" information can only confuse the issue. Concentrate on finding photos of Modern MO only and see where the director changes occurred.
Here is a photo of MISSOURI's port side MK. 37 director as she sits today in PH:
Hope this helps.
Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
would the new jersey have the same modified directors?
No, NEW JERSEY did not have the cupula on her directors:
BB62 MK37 - 1981.JPG (15.77 KiB) Viewed 3168 times
That's her in 1981 prior to her modernization
BB62 MK37 - 2003.JPG (23.04 KiB) Viewed 3168 times
Same director in 2003 as a museum, after her last commission
Hope this helps,
Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
I have started the building of the Missouri kit.
Very nice kit.
The first page is attaching the front hull pieces to the main part of the hull.
No surprises. I also added the hull skeg pieces and underwater hull strakes.
All of the parts fit very nicely.
Now is the time to paint the hull before adding any details.
I bought Tamiya dull red spray paint. I am happy with the color. Just a little bit too red but not
Like a fire engine red.
Looks ok.
Post build reports as a new thread in the Picture Post -> Works in Progress section: viewforum.php?f=59
I've been moving your questions regarding the Missouri to the Iowa class thread: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=4683
Please use that thread only for questions, not for progress reports. And please ensure you are hitting the "Post Reply" button instead of the "New Topic" option when you're inside that thread.
would the new jersey have the same modified directors?
No, NEW JERSEY did not have the cupula on her directors:
There must be a lot of variations on the MK 37. It looks to me like the back of those o n the NJ is curved.Yet I have encountered no diagrams of a MK 37 showing a curved back.
It looks to me like the back of those o n the NJ is curved.Yet I have encountered no diagrams of a MK 37 showing a curved back.
NEW JERSEY (and the other 3 IOWA class ships) do not have curved backs on their Mk. 37 FC Directors. Here is a good example of the typ. MK. 37 from the Warships Illustrated CA-139 booklet:
This illustration is of the director with the cupula, NJ's do not have the cupula and as far as my photos go back (1945) never did. You might check NavSource to verify this further back. The director Mods also differed in the number of frontal face openings they employed.
The Trumpeter model of MISSOURI does have the director with cupula which for my purposes was incorrect. Model Monkey provided the correct Mk/Mod for building a correct NEW JERSEY (regardless of era).
Hope this helps,
Hank
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69
Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48
It looks to me like the back of those o n the NJ is curved.Yet I have encountered no diagrams of a MK 37 showing a curved back.
NEW JERSEY (and the other 3 IOWA class ships) do not have curved backs on their Mk. 37 FC Directors.
Here is the kind of thing that is confusing me. This picture of the NJ appears to show a rounded back, squared off by a triangular filler at the top. The position of the range finder covering suggests little angle in the photo.
When I looked at the photo uploaded (especially when resized to fit the limits of the site) the details I referred to were not clear. Here is a filtered version that shows the triangle more clearly.
The Iowa and New Jersey had angled back directors installed while the Missouri and Wisconsin had square back directors installed. Same with the main battery directors.
The square back directors had the commanders copula while the angle back have a hatch
The extension to the back of the MK37 director was added when they installed the Mk 12 height finding radar to the MK 22 radar.
There wasn't enough room for the additional equipment so they added the extensions.
The earliest Mk 37 directors, seen on mostly SIMS-BENSON-GLEAVES class destroyers, the first four ATLANTA class cruisers and early production fast battleships, had what is called TAPER-BACKED Mk 37 directors. The Mk 37 directors were changed to the SQUARE-BACKED version (FLETCHER class and just about every cruiser built during WWII) on new construction in late 1941-early 1942.
The initial radar installed on Mk 37 destroyers was the FD (Mk 4) radar which worked fine on the TAPER-BACKED Mk 37 directors. The newer and improved Mk 12 and Mk 22 radars were intended to replace the Mk 4 radars and were installed on the SQUARE-BACKED Mk 37 directors, with extensions added on the back for the additional electronics required for those radars. However the improved Mk 12 radar and Mk 22 height finder radar COULDN'T be fitted in the TAPER-BACKED directors and NEVER had Mk 12 radar installed on them. The Mk 22 radar was installed on some TAPER-BACKED Mk 37 directors with the Mk 4 radar on BENSON-GLEAVES class destroyers. On destroyers the USN didn't want to go to the expense and weight penalties of removing TAPER-BACKED and installing new SQUARE-BACKED Mk 37 directors. However, on the large units, it was desired to have the full Mk 12/22 radar capability installed and the weight penalty was NOT an issue. Hence the Mk 37 directors on the Fast Battleships were modified with new housings (changing the whole fire control and drive train was unnecessary) for those units completed with TAPER-BACKED Mk 37 directors.
The cupola was an upgrade mod for the Gun Captain position on the Mk 37 director that was intended to be installed on ALL SQUARE-BACKED directors, but never was applied to all directors once the war was over. The addition of the cupola DID NOT change the Mod number of the director.
Jim, the triangular "box" on the back of director is part of the extension and the "boxes" on the side are part of her "mothball" covers of the rangefinder. The backs of the Mk 37 directors are the SQUARE-BACK version.
Just for the record according to Armament Summaries in 1960 the Mk 37 directors on the IOWA class when they all had been upgraded to Mk 25 radar were;
BB-61 and BB-62; one Mk 37 Mod 8, two Mk 37 Mod 9, and one Mk 37 Mod 10
BB-63 and BB-64; one Mk 37 Mod 11, two Mk 37 Mod 12, and one Mk 37 Mod 13
The Mod numbers likely were changed when the upgrades and during the 1980s reactivation.
Here are a couple of photos I found of the Alabama they seem to show more clearly the same shape as the one example posted from the NJ.
Sadly, I can't tell if all the directors are roughly the same in shape? I can't really tell the configuration of the doors. You can see in these pictures two doors on the top with a third filled in. Also, there appears to be filled in doors on the front of [some] directors on the NJ.
I am shocked that this information is so hard to find considering how widely used the MK 37 was used.
