Model Monkey Sneak Peeks

[Christoph Mentzel]

Hi Steve,

Great to see this

Best regards
Chris

[dwkr]

For Vietnam War-era Baltimores, there are sufficient references to design enclosed bridges for USS St. Paul CA-73 and USS Los Angeles CA-135. There are some differences between the two.



The designs are still very rough and some adjustments will be made to what you see here to better reflect photographs of the real ships. The designs are being drawn in 1/192nd scale for later re-scaling to 1/700 (Trumpeter, SkyWave/Pit-Road), 1/500 (Aurora), 1/490 (Revell) and 1/350 (YMW and Trumpeter - we hope). Other scales are possible. In smaller scales, the SPG-25 radar antenna atop the Mk.37 director is not printable. Hopefully, as technology matures, it will be.

Wow! I am looking forward to this in 1/700! Thanks!

[proditor]

I can't wait to order a couple of those in 1/700.

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks so much!

Closer...

USS Saint Paul CA-73 on the left, USS Los Angeles CA-135 on the right.

[Aop Aur]

Nice design!

Aop

[ModelMonkey]

Thanks, Aop!

Framing designed. Saint Paul and Los Angeles were a bit different. The enclosed bridges for Los Angeles extended farther aft.

USS Saint Paul CA-73:

USS Los Angeles CA-135:

[shipwright]

Thanks, Aop!

Framing designed. Saint Paul and Los Angeles were a bit different. The enclosed bridges for Los Angeles extended farther aft.

USS Saint Paul CA-73:

1-192 Baltimore class Enclosed Bridges at 80% complete.d.jpg

USS Los Angeles CA-135:

1-192 Baltimore class Enclosed Bridges at 80% complete.e.jpg

PLEASE add a 1/600 scale version for the Aurora 1/600 ST. PAUL !!!

Joe (shipwright)

[Rick E Davis]

Steve,

Do you have any plans to make in 1/350 scale the 5-in/38-cal mount with the half shield and canvas top as was used on SIMS and Early BENSON-GLEAVES class units (DD409 through DD444)? The DML early-BENSON-GLEAVES class kits have one of these "rag-top" mounts in those kits for the early BENSON-GLEAVES class units with it. But, if you want to build a SIMS class unit using the SIMS class stack available, you need one of these "rag-top" 5-in mounts. Also if you want to make a "Five-Gun" version of a BENSON or GLEAVES class unit, like the attached image, you need either one or two more of these.

[ModelMonkey]

Hi Joe! 1/600, too, definitely.

Hi Rick! What a great idea. Wish I'd thought of it. Added to the queue. 3D-printed 5" mounts continue to be very popular in all available scales. I would design it with the canvas top in place. Any help with research is hugely appreciated. If you have any photos that show how the glacis might have been reinforced, please help. I suspect that the frontal shield was kind of a transitional design, a hybrid of the open mount and early "hard-top" mounts, but I don't know that.

Maybe for marketing purposes, I'll call the designs "5"/38 cal. Cabriolet Mounts". Just kidding.

[Rick E Davis]

Steve,

The "open-top" half-shield mounts went through a few iterations for sure. It appears that the initial open tops on the early BENSON-GLEAVES units simply added the shield to the existing "open" 5-in/38cal mounts and retained the lower front shield. The frontal shield to protect the electrical and gearing from water in front of the mount was kept in place. I suspect these were the early shield with the truly splinter protection thickness. This type of "half-shield" with the bottom shield lasted into 1942 at least, but is noticeable into 1943 on some units. By about the time they started adding the twin 40-mm mounts on the SIMS-BENSON-GLEAVES units, this type of half-shield was replaced with the "light-weight" shield that really offered very little protection except from the weather, to compensate for the added weight of the 40-mm armament. But not always was it replaced. On the SIMS class, they appear to have been modified from the start with a completely new half-shield that did away with the original open mount lower frontal cover.

There are a couple (several actually) of different "types" of canvas tops. The very first units actually appear to not have had any real bracing under the canvas at all. There is a "flat-top" and at "middle-peak-rounded-edges-top" (or just call it tapered) which obviously should do a better job of keeping water off. The most common "type" appears to be the one that DML has choose to model, the tapered type. It is up to you, but I don't know that it is worth your effort to try and duplicate ALL of these. The number of support piping ribs varied, but appears to have evolved to about three or five going across from side to side, front to back.

Directly below are a couple of views of the Half-Shield Mount with the lower frontal cover retained in the design that was installed on USS MADISON (DD-425) in June 1941. These two images are curious of Roger Torgeson. The third image is a close-up of the type of half-shield installed on USS MORRIS (DD-417) in August 1941.







At the bottom are a series of views of different types of canvas tops.

The first three images show the "evolution" of the canvas cover styles used on USS WOOLSEY (DD-437). They are out of order, the first one shows her 1943 half-shield style and the next two show the 1941 and early 1942 styles.

The remaining images show various styles of canvas tops. Just to make it confusing.

Note that USS GLEAVES (DD-423) in 1945 had a different shaped shield (I never noticed this before) in the front. The lowest vertical front panel is much shorter and appears to stick out further out from the mount than on other shields.

[ModelMonkey]

The photos are HUGELY helpful.

It seems perhaps I should start with the "tapered" version (?).

Any advice for what number of these I should put together as a set that would be most helpful for modelers? More than one kind of set is just fine. I can combine existing "hard-top" designs with new "soft-tops" in sets, too. The ring stand design is complete so I could add those if modelers are interested (they actually sell very well all by themselves).

For twin 5" mounts, I'll also be designing Mk.38s for Sumners and Gearings (not in 1/700 scale - please patronize 3DModelparts). I promised two modelers I'd add 5" twin mounts for Porters (and Wichita) to the queue, too. I'd probably do all the 5"/38 designs simultaneously. There is some efficiency gained in designing that way.

I've got some designs to complete before I get to these but I think I can get to them fairly soon.

Here is the 2017 queue: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=164638

[Rick E Davis]

Steve,

I can't speak for other modelers. But, in my case I need at least two of the early type half-shields used on the BENSON-GLEAVES class units with the lower frontal cover holdover from the open mount (taper canvas top is fine). (That would match the first image I posted when I asked about these) One idea would be to "package" a couple of each of at least the two major half-shield styles ... the taper top with and without the frontal cover. If you want they could be combined with a couple of each of the standard enclosed mounts, double-knuckle and single knuckle, that would provide in one set enough for any conversion/modification project I can think of for the SIMS-BENSON-GLEAVES classes, since the DML BENSON-GLEAVES kits (and SIMS conversion of one of those kits) are the only ones that would utilize these. Or you could produce a set of just half-shield open top mounts including the two types mentioned above and pairs of other open-top-half-shield variations (actually flat tops are the main one here with and w/o the frontal shield), including one pair without a canvas top (or just the half-shield if it can be made to fit over an open mount 5-in/38cal gun?). I know at least one guy that has a project building the USS TERROR and she had half-shield 5-in mounts without canvas tops (for some reason).

You can E-mail me if you need any additional images or higher res versions.

[ModelMonkey]

Sounds excellent. I'll start with the lower frontal cover holdover from the open mount, taper top, design. For marketing purposes, please suggest some simple name for that mount. (I struggled with "double knuckle" and "single knuckle" because those names do not translate into other languages understandably. Customers wanted to know what the turret had to do with a pig's knuckle.)

The 1/350 Benson/Gleaves kit is a favorite. Really, really well done.

I can assemble a set of several single mounts of different types. Not too many, though; 3D printing remains expensive, unfortunately.

[ModelMonkey]

how about "open top version A" & "open top version B" for the canvas top 5" mounts?

Hi David,

Unfortunately, I'm not able to offer open mounts or open top mounts in 1/700 or 1/350. Shapeways would reject the designs since their features would be so fine they would not survive cleaning.

Canvas-topped, no problem.

[Rick E Davis]

Steve,

I actually like the Canvas Top "Type A", "Type B", Type etc labels. As long as there are images of them, individuals can sort out what they want/need. I have never seen a USN nomenclature for the different shield types. The shields used on 5-in mounts had a separate nomenclature for each different shield type. But it is hard to find that level of detail below the 5-in Mount nomenclature. I know that they likely were given different "Mod" numbers, but I don't have a list of those. I have broken down for my own sanity the BENSON-GLEAVES dual classes into several "Groups" as "BI, BII, GI, GIIIa, GIIIb" etc", to categorize their different major configurations. It makes my Excel database spreadsheet timelines easier to use and sort.

What makes a reasonable number of mounts in a set is really up to what your experience says is marketable. For me, I go nuts trying to hunt for 3-D printed parts. Shapeways search engine ... well sucks. I hunted around on-line for resin and 3-D printed Canvas top 5-in mounts with no luck. So I asked you.

[ModelMonkey]

Got it, makes complete sense to me.

Shapeways search engine does suck and they know it. They've made significant progress in getting products to show up in Google searches instead.

Google "shapeways" and the thingy you are looking for. If the shop owner has set up his site right, Google will pull it all up.

[Rick E Davis]

Steve,

You at least have your own website.

I don't know if it is worth it, but a 1970 era bridge for the old Revell SHERMAN class destroyer kit (1/300 to 1/320 scale?) would be tasty for me. I'm trying to scratch-modify it from the kits 1950s bridge and there are just SO MANY changes, that I almost feel like starting over. I have copies of the BGP drawings for USS DAVIS (DD-937), but they are not the most detailed. It doesn't help that I only took camera shots of the BGP (half the size of 1950s FLETCHER BGPs???) blueprints with white lines and converted the images to grayscale reverse contrast.

[ModelMonkey]

"Frog-Eye" mounts and Mk.56 directors are available for the Revell Forrest Shermans (I've loved those kits since I was a kid):

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/model_m ... Revell&s=0

A bridge for Revell Forest Shermans is added to the queue. 3D-printed products for classic Revell kits are popular.

Carl uses a different kind of 3D printing technology than does Shapeways that works very well. Definitely worth asking him.

Shapeways' 3D printers can print the mounts in 1/350 and 1/700. But Shapeways print engineers can't clean them without destroying them.

[JariL]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the answer, sort of what I thought.

Best regards,

Jari

[johnhmartin]

Any idea on ETA for the North Carolina turrets?