Calling all Brooklyn-class (CL-40) fans

[MatthewB]

Great.... And no-one makes an Aftermarket Mk. 29 Twin 5"/38 mount.

O_o

Oh well.... Not pressing until I finish my tugs and sub-chasers.

MB

[MatthewB]

But...

Thank you, much, David and Dick.

MB

[Sean Hert]

Anyone have information on the flag facilities of the Brooklyns?

[MatthewB]

OMG!!! What happened to NavSource???!!!

MB

[Sean Hert]

OMG!!! What happened to NavSource???!!!

MB

It's been down for the past week.

[Ian Roberts]

Unrelated, but the discussion in the NORTHAMPTON class CA thread spurred discussion of the main battery directors aboard the early BROOKLYN class ships. This is a crop from a high-res photo I found on the NHHC website of BROOKLYN (CL-40) at a naval review off NYC in 1939:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... 0_1939.jpg (close crop of NH 81195 CL-40 BROOKLYN 1939 NY)

Friedman states that these ships had the early Mark 34 installations without rangefinders (I suppose they only had spotting glasses). The shape of the director shield is very different (much smaller) than the big shield type that must have been fitted during these ships' early wartime refits. Here is a crop of page 184 from US Cruisers that shows the same photo with a small text blurb that confusingly lists the directors as "Mark 24" (the same type fitted to the NORTHAMPTON class, hence why this came up). https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... nknown.png

Any ideas from you guys about it?

[Dick J]

That caption is undoubtedly a typo. The Brooklyn's had early version MK-34 directors, not MK-24. In 1942, with the big wartime expansion of cruisers underway, wholesale equipment replacement on earlier ships was not an option. New construction needed the equipment ordered for it. So the Brooklyn MK-34's were modified to add the rangefinder, making them unique. The St Louis group had the rangefinders in the MK-34's from the beginning as did Wichita. The MK-34's on the Tennessee and California, as modernized, were diverted from Cleveland's that were converted to Independence class CVL's. (Saratoga received MK-37 directors also freed up by CVL conversions.) But by late '43, as production numbers increased, more early ships (Northampton's & Portland's) could begin being upgraded with MK-34's. By then, though, the Brooklyn's had already had their MK-34's modified with rangefinders and there was nothing to be gained by replacing them with the later style MK-34's. BTW, Vincennes CA-44, a contemporary of the Brooklyn's, also had the early MK-34's, but hers were never modified.

[Ian Roberts]

Another question: was there a smaller armor belt extending forward from the main belt? It's visible in this photo of CL-50 at launch, and some plans show it as well. It seems like a strange place for a belt extension, especially since it doesn't cover #1 turret's magazine spaces.

[DrPR]

Yes. Both the Brooklyn/Helena and Cleveland classes had that smaller armor belt.

Phil

[Mike W]

I have a 1/700 Corsair Armada USS Honolulu that I built years ago but it has been damaged and I would like to repair and repaint it but I have lost the instructions, so I'll need some advice on this matter. I know the kit represents the ship at somepoint during 1942 but I'm not sure exactly when. I'll be repainting the model in Ms21 as part of the repair and restoration work and will complete the model with some etch railings and some simple rigging (the catapults, cranes and searchlight tower are already etc).

I'll need to know the radar fit on the directors and masts as well as what boats it carried and the placement of said boats. At the moment I have 2 small boats on the boat deck and only the port boat crane is fitted. I know the placement of the 20mm guns around the boat deck and aft superstructure but how many did it have around the forward superstructure and where were they placed? There used to be a couple of small fittings atop the bridge which are missing, did it have searchlights there or AA directors or something else?

help is much appreciated.

thanks
Mike

[maxim]

According to the instructions the kit can be depicted as Honolulu between January and October 1942 (also a Pearl Harbor version is possible).

According to the instructions there are two 26' boats on the boat deck, both on the port of the centreline. See here:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/048/0404841.jpg

In January 1942 there were three boats: a larger boat (26'?) on port next to the 20 mm gun tube, on top of it whaler and on the starboard of it another whaler.

There are ten 20 mm guns: two in front of the bridge on the upper deck, two on the bridge (forward of the Mk 33 director for the 5' guns), two on each side next to the boats and to next the rear superstructure.

There is a view of the instructions:
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... -48-06.jpg
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... oenix.html

The 2 cm are the small crosses on the starboard side. A signal light on the bridge has the number 29, the range finder 39 was replaced by two 20 mm guns.

The only visible radar in January 1942 is a Mk 3 radar on the forward Mk 34 director. According to Terzibaschitsch she had an SC radar on the foremast, but in table in the book the SC radar is not mentioned. Here is no radar visible, but the photo is not good:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/048/0404802.jpg

Later, end of October 1942, there are Mk 3 on both Mk 34, Mk 4 on the Mk 33 directors, and a SC radar on the foremast:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/048/0404822.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/048/0404823.jpg

But apparently the bridge was modified too in October 1942...

[Mike W]

Thanks for that, that narrows the timescale a little to between Pearl Harbour and October 42. The bridge on the kit is the early bridge so it has to be pre-October 42. I looked at the pics on Navsource but I don't think they're good enough (on the pre Oct 42 pics) to discern some details. When did the boat complement change and was any radar's added prior to the Oct 42 refit? I can easily stick a fc radar on the forward director, in fact one had fallen off but I've managed to not lose that piece.

thanks
Mike

[maxim]

I guess that she got an additional radar on the foremast, but the on the photos I found only the Mk 3 (FC) on the forward Mk 34 director.

[Mike W]

Early SC radar maybe?

thanks
Mike

[Rick E Davis]

It is quite likely that USS HONOLULU had SC-1 radar installed during the January-June 1942 period. I don't have any records to spell out exactly when. Many such upgrades even when done at Pearl Harbor, were done by a Tender and not the Navy Yard. But, HONOLULU spent the first few months, January-May 1942, escorting convoys from the USA coast to points west and had opportunities to have had a SC-1 radar installed before she proceeded to Aleutian waters. The surface search SG radar wasn't generally available for a couple of months after May 1942.

[Mike W]

Thanks Rick, I think I'll stick an SC-1 antenna on the foremast then. Do you know when the boat complement was reduced?

thanks
Mike

[Rick E Davis]

Sorry, I have no idea on the boats. The only "early" wartime view I have of HONOLULU is dated 30 January 1942 at MINY and is the same view widely published ... http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/048/0404802.jpg ...

[Mike W]

Thanks, I wasn't able to make that pic bigger, so couldn't make out too much, that's a lot better.

thanks
Mike

[maxim]

Another two photos of USS Honolulu (30th of January 1942?):





Unfortunately the radar on the foremast is not visible, but the boats are and also the radar on the forward Mk 34 director. And there are four 20 mm guns on the upper deck in front of the bridge.

[Rick E Davis]

From the image I posted earlier, it was pretty clear that she had yet had a search radar installed on either mast.

It appears that a few sailors or workmen are enjoying the view. Or they are prepping the top of the foremast for installation of a SC or SC-1 radar at a future date. In early 1942 radars were still in short supply. The larger warships of the USN were "suppose" to get bigger and better radars than the SC (aka CXAM-1 of a follow-on), with the SC intended for the destroyers. But, most units got at least the SC-1 before SC-2 and other larger radars were available.