Zumwalt class destroyers (updates)

[Haijun watcher]

NOTE: Re-titled, updated thread.

US Naval Institute

Raytheon Excalibur Round Set to Replace LRLAP on Zumwalts
By: Sam LaGrone
December 13, 2016 6:01 PM


THE PENTAGON � The Navy is looking to Raytheon�s Excalibur guided artillery round to replace the effective but expensive Long Range Land Attack Projectile for the Zumwalt-class of guided missile destroyers, defense officials confirmed to USNI News.

The decision to move ahead with the guided rounds for the 155mm Zumwalts� BAE Systems-built Advanced Gun Systems is codified in the Navy�s Fiscal Year 2018 budget submission, a defense official familiar with the move told USNI News.

The Navy would not confirm any details of the change saying the change was, �predecisional.�

�The Navy continuously monitors the gun and ammunition industry capability and capacities. To address evolving threats and mission requirements, the Navy is evaluating industry projectile solutions (including conventional and hyper-velocity projectiles) that can also meet the DDG 1000 deployment schedule and could potentially be used as an alternative to LRLAP for DDG 1000,� Navy Capt. Thurraya Kent told USNI News on Monday in a written statement.

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[DougC]

But it has a much shorter range.

[maxim]

Is anything new about that?

This article was linked on a another site, but is also already old:
http://tucson.com/business/tucson/rayth ... 475e4.html

[Haijun watcher]

NOTE: This is an updated, re-titled thread. Please scroll down for the latest updates.

A belated post:

Associated Press/ABC News

Navy's 2nd stealthy destroyer heads out to sea for 1st time
Associated Press / 08:13 AM December 05, 2017

BATH, Maine, United States � The second in the U.S. Navy stealthy Zumwalt class of destroyers headed out to sea for the first time on Monday, departing from Navy shipbuilder Bath Iron Works for builder trials.

The future USS Michael Monsoor carefully navigated the winding Kennebec River before reaching the North Atlantic. It�ll be at sea for several days before returning to Bath Iron Works for tweaks and adjustments.

Part of the 610-foot-long (186-meter-long) ship�s crew posed for photos at Fort Popham, in Phippsburg, as the ship cruised past.

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[Haijun watcher]

Another belated post, this time about something that forced her back to port:

US Naval Institute

Electrical Problems Shorten Second Zumwalt-class Destroyer�s Builders Trials
By: Sam LaGrone
December 11, 2017 1:55 PM

Problems with the complex electrical system on the second-in-class Zumwalt destroyer ended builders trails early and forced the ship to return to the General Dynamics Bath Iron Works shipyard in Maine, according to a statement from Naval Sea Systems Command.

According to NAVSEA, a harmonic filter aboard Michael Monsoor (DDG-1001) failed one day after the ship left the yard on Dec. 4. The ship returned to the yard on Dec. 5.

Harmonic filters are used in complex electrical systems to prevent unintended power fluctuations from damaging sensitive equipment.

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[Haijun watcher]

Is anything new about that?

Here you go:

Defense News

Navy has no plan to introduce new ammo for DDG-1000
By: Valerie Insinna ? 6 minutes ago

ARLINGTON, Va. � It�s been more than a year since the Navy decided to cancel procurement of an expensive new ammunition for its Zumwalt-class destroyers, but the service is still pondering how to best replace the munition, a Navy official said Wednesday.

In 2016, the Navy decided to stop buying the Long Range Land-Attack Projectile, or LRLAP, after discovering that its price had spiked to $800,000 per round. LRLAP was the only ammo developed specifically for the ship�s Advanced Gun System.

The problem, sources told Defense News then, didn�t lie with manufacturer Lockheed Martin, but with a program of record that decreased to three ships, making it impossible to benefit from economies of scale.

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[Haijun watcher]

Navy Recognition

U.S. Navy Second Zumwalt-Class Destroyer Michael Monsoor Completes Sea Trials

February 2018
Posted On Sunday, 04 February 2018 11:59

The U.S. Navy�s next generation destroyer, the future USS Michael Monsoor (DDG 1001), successfully completed acceptance trials on Feb. 1. The U.S. Navy�s Board of Inspection and Survey reviewed the ship and its crew during a series of demonstrations both pier side and underway, evaluating the ship�s construction and compliance with Navy specifications.

Many of the ship�s onboard systems including navigation, damage control, mechanical, electrical, combat, communications, and propulsion systems were tested to validate performance met or exceeded Navy specifications.

�DDG 1001 performed exceedingly well during acceptance trials,� said Capt. Kevin Smith, DDG 1000 class program manager, Program Executive Office (PEO) Ships. �The industry and Navy team worked together to incorporate lessons learned from DDG 1000. The trials once again demonstrated how truly powerful and exceptional these ships are.

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[maxim]

Here they state that the sea trials were very successful. There were people stating that this hull form would be problematic. Is there any indication that this is actually true? Or is it only a misunderstanding of modern hull forms?

[Haijun watcher]

Too bad there's only ever gonna be 3 Zumwalt class destroyers, not the 32 originally envisioned.

Popular Mechanics

The U.S. Navy�s Second Stealth Destroyer Passes Muster, But Some Big Question Lay Ahead

The good: USS Michael Monsoor completed acceptance trials. The bad: The fate of the multi-billion dollar Zumwalt warship program is still very much in the air.
By Kyle Mizokami
Feb 6, 2018

The USS Michael Monsoor, the second of three Zumwalt-class guided missile destroyers, has passed its acceptance trials on its way to joining the rest of the U.S. Navy. But the fate of the three stealth destroyers, the most advanced ships ever designed, remains up in the air as the Navy ponders how to move forward without ammunition for their main guns.

The USS Monsoor is named after US Navy SEAL and Medal of Honor recipient Petty Officer Michael A. Monsoor. Monsoor was killed in action in Iraq in 2006 after throwing himself on an enemy grenade. Michael Monsoor passed its trials off the coast of Maine on February 1. The ship has returned to General Dynamics Bath Iron Works in Bath, Maine.

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[maxim]

The US Navy wants to use the Zumwalt class now for fighting other warships - currently with a combination of SM-6 and Tomahawk. Still the addition of the SPY-4 probably would be helpful for that role, a proper anti-ship missile is missing and they have to find a solution for the currently useless 155 mm guns.

[Admiral John Byng]

The US Navy wants to use the Zumwalt class now for fighting other warships - currently with a combination of SM-6 and Tomahawk. Still the addition of the SPY-4 probably would be helpful for that role, a proper anti-ship missile is missing and they have to find a solution for the currently useless 155 mm guns.

Interesting. It seems to me that using a warship to fight other warships is really a secondary consideration these days. The biggest threat to surface units comes from missiles and torpedoes. Destroying enemy warships can be done by allocating one's own missiles (air launched or submarine launched and if the Chinese and Russians are to be believed, land launched) and torpedoes to the task. Obviously ships need to have some anti-ship missiles in case they run into the enemy, but it should not be their primary role.

As you say, Zumwalt class needs a credible long range air defence system so that they can operate independently and replacement of the 155mm guns with something more useful. Shore bombardment is an important mission, but no warship should be dedicated to that task these days, especially in the USN which has so many other assets that can accomplish that mission.

[maxim]

This is likely a reaction to the modernisation of the Chinese and Russian navy. The Chinese and Russian ships have all anti-ship missiles, even small corvettes. And this are often heavy, very fast missiles with large ranges. The US Navy has not introduced any dedicated anti-ship missile since the Harpoon (in service since 1977) and most newer US ships have non at all. They can defend themselves only with SM-2/6 missiles. The option that only aircraft and submarines can fight other warships and the surface warships depend on them, would always require bigger task forces. A independent operating surface warship could not do anything.

The Zumwalt class would be good for independent operations, if it would have a proper radar combination and not only the short range SPY-3. The SPY-4 is anyway produced for the Ford class, why do they not refit the few Zumwalt ships?

[carr]

..

[maxim]

SPY-3 is a X band radar, which is good for guiding the missiles and short range detection, but not optimal for long range and volume search.

SPY-1 and SPY-4 are S band radars for volume search. SPY-1D has 585 km range, I have not yet found the range of SPY-4. The first SPY-1 radars were supplemented with SPS-49, the current ones do not need that. But they still need additional target illuminators, which are not needed in case of SPY-3. The shorter wave lengths of the SPY-3, which enable the precision for guiding missiles, have the penalty of shorter range.

[carr]

..

[carr]

..

[Haijun watcher]

The US Navy wants to use the Zumwalt class now for fighting other warships - currently with a combination of SM-6 and Tomahawk. Still the addition of the SPY-4 probably would be helpful for that role, a proper anti-ship missile is missing and they have to find a solution for the currently useless 155 mm guns.

Speaking of which:

Defense News

The Navy�s stealth destroyers to get new weapons and a new mission: killing ships
By: David B. Larter ? 1 day ago

WASHINGTON � The Navy has a new vision for what its enormous high-tech destroyers will do: Killing enemy warships at extended ranges.

The Navy is asking Congress to fund a conversion of its 600-foot stealth destroyers from primarily a land attack ship to an anti-surface, offensive strike platform, according to budget documents released Feb. 12.

The service�s 2019 budget request includes a request for $89.7 million to transform its Zumwalt-class destroyers by integrating Raytheon�s long-range SM-6 missile, which can dual hat as both an anti-air and anti-surface missile, as well as its Maritime Strike variant of the Tomahawk missile.

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[maxim]

@ Carr: it is possible that the range given at Wikipedia is correct and that a software solution could make it possible to use the SPY-3 for something, for which it was not designed for. But on the other hand I would think that the designers of the SPY-3/4 pair had good reasons to combine radars with two different wave lengths and that usually short wave radars are not used for long range volume search. There is only one other similar radar used also for volume search: EMPAR. It it uses longer wave lengths, but was also not designed for it. It is also used alone only in much smaller ships (the Italian FREMM), in larger ships it is combined with SMART-L (S-1850M), a radar with much longer wave lengths and much more range. Also even EMPAR alone has more range than SPY-3 (based on Wikipedia). For a ship of the size and costs of the Zumwalt class, it would be a waste of possibilities to not equip it properly. If the SPY-4 is added, the Zumwalt class would be also first class air defence ships, likely way superior to the existing USN ships with inferior radars (SPY-1).

For bombarding land targets usually nobody designs expensive ships. For this purpose old, outdated ships (e.g. old battleships) or converted landing crafts were used, e.g. such ships:


https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:LSMR-513-1.jpg

These were cheap. And such ships could be rapidly built also today and equipped with cheaper missiles (e.g. something similar, but more evolved than the army's M270 launcher). But to built ships as expensive as the Zumwalt class exclusively for such a purpose, would be really a massive waste of resources.

[carr]

..

[maxim]

But how you explain the different bands (wave length sets) used for different radars? SPY-3 is on the extreme lower end, i.e. short wave lengths, because it is designed to be the illuminator radar! Most European air defence ships (except of those with SPY-1!) do not need extra illuminator radars, because their short wave phased array radars (SAMPSON, EMPAR, APAR) are used for it. In contrast all volume search radars have longer wave lengths, some (e.g. SMART-L) even much longer. If the Wikipedia about SPY-3 is correct, it would be still not an impressive range. This is at least partly about physical properties of radar waves! Shorter wave lengths give precision, longer wave lengths provide range...

The lack of close in defence weapons is a problem for many roles, especially for land bombardment (because there it would be exposed to attacks by missiles fired from planes, coast, ships and submarines). Likely ESSM is here the main close in defence weapon. The question is still what kind of small guns will be added.

If the other hardware is missing, it should be possible to add them, because the Zumwalts are really large ships with massive superstructures.