Hi guys,
after perhaps annoying some of you in this thread with my USS Quincy-related questions for a while I finally called my build done today. For those interested in Quincy in her as-sunk fit I just posted some photos and a write-up here in the Completed builds section. Hope it may serve as an inspiration to someone just like builds of other modelers inspired me. Thanks!
Okay brain trust I have a challenge for everyone. I have gone through DANFS and the meager resources I have in an attempt to create a list of the visibly different configurations all seven ships would have been in throughout their careers. Largely based off the "as built" and various "refit/overhauls" that I could find. The information is really sparse and I know more occured. Can you help me fill in the blanks? I only need dates, not what was done. I will be heading to NARA to get plans for selected date ranges, hence not needed to know what was actually done.
New Orleans CA-32
Launched 4/12/33
Commissioned 2/15/34
refit (new radar and 20mms) 2/12/42
refit previous to 12/44
Just off the top of my head, add the following:
New Orleans: Pearl 40MM added to fantail Sep-Oct '42, Puget Sound repair/modernization Apr-Jul '43.
Minneapolis: Mare Island June '41, Pearl 40MM added to fantail Sep-Oct '42, Mare Island repair/modernization May-Aug '43.
San Francisco: Mare Island repair/modernization Dec '42-Feb '43.
Vincennes: NYNY Jan-Feb '42 prior to transit to Pacific.
You could also go through Navsource and look for Yard Photos (dated hopefully) for the units in the class. Those point to yard periods at least in late 1941 and beyond. MINY overhauls and refits generally have quite a few photos. Other yards are more iffy.
In early 1942, many ships underwent short yard periods when they added 20-mm guns and radars as time allowed. Such yard visits, particularly at PHNY, are difficult to nail down specific dates without going through Weekly Overhaul Reports or (maybe) individual ship records in Textual. Then when the 40-mm guns and Mk 51 directors became available in late summer 1942, another period of swap out of 40-mm for 1.1-in mounts and refits occurred (if the ship wasn't lost first).
Something to realize. It was common practice for USN ships to go through a shakedown period after commissioning and completion (sometimes completion actually lagged commissioning). Then a "Post-Shakedown Availability" was done after shakedown (pre-WWII shakedown could last a year). The King Board Mods were started in 1940 on the "Heavy Units" (BB, CV, CA, and CL) with several interim configurations due to a lack of 1.1-in mounts and lagged on the destroyers into mid-1941.
I don't know which ship plans you are planning to look for at NARA. The pre-WWII units generally have "as completed" drawings available (if any) and if any drawings are available during WWII, the "last configuration" could be available ... in paper/mylar. Microfilm offers the best option for maybe finding other configurations, but are time consuming to go through. Check with Sean and Tracy about microfilm searches.
Sean located in Textual Records (they are listed in the NARA Ship Plans index books) BGP's for CA-31 (not on your list) and CA-37 in 1944. I had select views of those two ships scanned at NARA for Sean. Contact me off-board if you want a copy of those plans ... way too big to E-Mail.
Quincy CA-39
launched 6/19/35
commissioned 6/9/36
refit 10/5/36 or 3/15/36 (DANFS not clear) ... The March 1936 date would be before she was commissioned. A typo for 1937 or even 1938?? DANFS has typos that can drive you nuts. The October 1936 refit would be about right for a Post-Shakedown Availability.
refit 5/4/40
refit 3/42
Quick question. I've stripped the paint off an old 1/700 Trumpeter San Francisco 1942 kit pending a bit of a refurbishment, but I also want to build San Francisco 1944 version in camouflage. To avoid doubling up on a single ship when the class has plenty of interesting members, I'm looking at converting my kit to Astoria as part of the repaint. I've used the reviews on this site to compare the instructions side by side and it seems the kits are basically identical and build the same except:
- turrets (obviously); I actually have a spare set of round faced turrets so this isn't an issue
- shape of the 20mm gallery on the aft control position; even on a built kit it shouldn't be too hard to cut this off and rebuild to the right shape
Depends on how picky you want to be. There are several other changes that should be made. Astoria only received the 20MM on either side of the bridge-top rangefinder after Midway. So with that feature, she needs MK-3 radar on the MK-31 directors. On San Francisco, the 20MM forward of the raised 5" mounts by the bridge were further inboard, with the outboard bulwark even with the bulkhead below it. On Astoria, the tubs were outboard, more directly in front of the 5" mounts. On San Francisco, a bulwark extended along the back of the bridge, connecting the two 1.1" tubs (except for a short break for a ladder). On Astoria, the bulwark between tubs was almost non-existent. On San Francisco, the deck at the level of the hangar roof overhung the back of the hangar structure. On Astoria, only the two 20MM tubs extended beyond the bulkhead. On San Francisco, the small rangefinder tub on the back of the after superstructure (above turret 3) was at hangar roof level. On Astoria, it was a bit higher. In that last refit, Astoria received directors for the forward 1.1's but not for the ones on the fantail. The tubs for all 4 directors had been in place since June of '41, so when lost, her fantail director tubs were empty.
Thanks Dick! Most of those seem like simple modifications, how picky I can be is limited by what I can modify on a built kit. Although now I have an annoying case of "wish I didn't ask". If I just bought Trumpeter's Astoria I would have built her OOB and not known these things, but now knowing and not changing will bother me.
Hi Vlad,
there is one more detail I am aware of that was not mentioned yet - the main 8"/55 guns were Mark 9 on Astoria while San Francisco had the later Mark 12. The difference is that Mark 9 had a "step" while Mark 12 were "plain" (sorry if my terminology is not really correct). But this is really rivet counting
HTH
Finally finished up the Mk28 Directors for my 1/144 San Francisco; I think that I can live with these.
Granted there's a lot of "artistic license" involved as I couldn't find any specific dimensional information, or even descent pictures. Main cupola was scratchbuilt, the range finder out front and the computer inside are both 3d printed (my first effort to involve new technology).
Your thoughts?
Bruce
Bruce
OSC USN-Ret
Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46
Excellent! I stared at photos of Mk28 for some hours when I was trying to make them right for my 1/700 Quincy and I really love yours.
Where can we see more photos of your SF?
Thanks Steve and Vlad, glad you think it looks good.
Vlad, I haven't taken any up to date pictures of the project in some time; probably should. I've been so consumed with getting it finished that, with the exception of a spot picture here and there, I haven't taken any. I'm working on repainting an area I've been working on, I'll see if I can take some and post a set of pictures when that's done.
Bruce
Bruce
OSC USN-Ret
Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46
So I'm putting on the PE lettering (upper left), looking closely at my reference photos and noticed an important historical event seemingly lost to history...
I guess sailors hiding and taking naps is a time honored tradition! At least it was during my time in the Army.
According to Chuck Hansen's book on the San Francisco she carried the 50cals from 1934 until early 1942. Four each on the forward and aft machine gun platforms, two on each side of the ship. The ship carried 2 sets of paravanes from the time of commissioning until decommissioning.
Good modeling,
Bruce
OSC USN-Ret
Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46
Hi Bruce,
I did notice the machine guns in George Richardson's 1935 drawings. And based upon your reply I think it is safe to assume they were in the same locations in 1939.
I had thought USSSF had only two paravanes, not four. So I will have to think a bit about where they would have been stored.
Anyway, thank you for this very helpful information.
Regards,
Chuck
Chuck,
One set of the paravanes was located forward on the 01 level deckhouse on either side of mount 82. The other pair were located aft on the 01 on either side of the forward superstructure as well. I have some pictures I can dig up if you need them.
Best
Bruce
OSC USN-Ret
Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46
I finally called my build done today. For those interested in Quincy in her as-sunk fit I just posted some photos and a write-up here in the Completed builds section. Hope it may serve as an inspiration to someone just like builds of other modelers inspired me. Thanks!
