HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

[wefalck]

Here on the Forum 'Shipbuilder' has developed some useful rigging techniques for small-scale models - you may want to get one or the other of Bob's e-books on the subject. Otherwise, Lloyd McCaffery's book 'Ships in Miniature' has a lot of ideas for rigging at that scale.

[EJFoeth]

That's a great book with good examples on building very small plank-on-frame Men of War. (Even though he keeps encouraging you to stop trying if you're clumsy)

[Bill Code]

look forward to your progress on this !

[marijn van gils]

Many thanks guys!

Here on the Forum 'Shipbuilder' has developed some useful rigging techniques for small-scale models - you may want to get one or the other of Bob's e-books on the subject. Otherwise, Lloyd McCaffery's book 'Ships in Miniature' has a lot of ideas for rigging at that scale.

Thanks!
I got a couple of Bob's ebooks. They are great indeed!
I'll look into getting McCaffery's book too.

Cheers,

Marijn

[EJFoeth]

If you plan on visiting the next Dutch 350 SIG (In Belgium, incidentally) I can bring my copy....

[marijn van gils]

Thanks Evert-Jan!

When and where is that?

[EJFoeth]

September the 8th at Maarten's place, just east of Hasselt.

[Martocticvs]

Hollowed out resin hull... this should be interesting! Looking forward to watching this develop

There are a number of sketches that were made immediately after the battle, showing the damage to some of the ships - hopefully you have come across those? (pretty sure there was one of Victory - can't remember the artist's name right now, unfortunately)

[maurice de saxe]

There is a sketchbook by no less an artist than J.M.W. Turner circa 1806. I think most of it is online via the Tate Gallery website.

[EJFoeth]

Also just out: https://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/Rigging ... um=subsite

(Rerelease)

[wefalck]

Well, it is a pity that such book is actually re-released. I understand that it is full of historical inaccuracies, as it is based on models observed in the Maritime Museum in Stockholm, without assessing critically their respective 'restoration' history. In another forum, we just had a discussion of this book with examples of rigging that are outright nonsense.

[EJFoeth]

Thanks for that critical note; perhaps not such a good reference...

[Martocticvs]

My usual go-to for rigging is James Lees' Masting & Rigging of English Ships of War. I have no idea of any good sources for French ships, though surely there must be some. I also don't know if Lees' work has been subjected to criticism in more recent years, as it is now at least 10 since I did anything with ships from this period.

I'd forgotten about Turner's sketches - not sure now if I was thinking of those, or whether I saw some others. I'll have to try and track them down in whatever book I saw them in.

[marijn van gils]

Sorry for the late reply guys!

September the 8th at Maarten's place, just east of Hasselt.

Good location for me, but bad date. On sunday 9th, our club is organising the KMK Scaleworld show in Mol. But of course that's a place where all of you are very welcome too! http://www.kmk-scaleworld.be/index.php

@ Martocticvs and Maurice de saxe: The Turner sketches are indeed available, and Dafi already graciously pointed me to them. But I do remember reading about another name making sketches of the damaged ships too, but couldn't locate these yet.

Well, it is a pity that such book is actually re-released. I understand that it is full of historical inaccuracies, as it is based on models observed in the Maritime Museum in Stockholm, without assessing critically their respective 'restoration' history. In another forum, we just had a discussion of this book with examples of rigging that are outright nonsense.

I have a copy of this book. In the introduction, the author states that he made it after one specific model, of Melampus, which is preserved in the Bristol Industrial Museum (not Stockholm, but the author is Swedish). He chose this model specifically because it is contemporary (probably commisioned by the builders) and thought not to have had much restauration to the rigging. He does however not discuss which parts of the rigging may have been restaured and which parts are certainly original. So it can have some mistakes in it indeed (like most books).
But many thanks for the heads-up; of course I wouldn't be using it's contents on it's own but always refer to Victory-specific sources too.
I have to say, it does have the merit of making rigging simple to understand for a newbie like me by breaking it down into simple elements though. I do feel like I learned a lot from it. But when modelling, I certainly will not use it without double-checking the details!

I'll look into the James Lee book too Martovics too.
For French ships, I bought the 4 volumes of Boudriot's 'the 74 gun ship', which I'm sure will provide at least a good basis.

Many thanks again everyone for the help!

Cheers,

Marijn

[GewoonWouter]

Now this is a project I have been waiting for. I was sitting ready with popcorn in my hands (well not really, I don't like popcorn )

What a great start. But darn, Marijn, hollowing out that expensive resin kit is not for the faint hearted. I reckon this is what makes the difference between a good modeller and an extra ordinary one. Good show!

Good to see someone post a schematic of the average height of people during the 1800's. This clearly proves that Napoleon Bonaparte wasn't a midget AT ALL. Something which still up to this day is told by some, especially in the Anglosaxon world. ^^

Looking forward to the next update.

Cheers

[JIM BAUMANN]

intersting !! -- from the internet....

=========================================================================

>>> Napoleon <<<

The widespread misconception that Napoleon (1769-1821) was short seems to have come about both from miscalculation and British propaganda. Napoleon's 1821 autopsy by his personal physician, Francesco Antommarchi (1780-1838), recorded his height

as 5 feet and 2 inches. It is now believed that this was in the French measurement (5 pieds 2 pouces), which translates to

5ft 7 in English measurement. This was above the average height for Frenchmen between 1800 and 1820 (which was 5ft 4�), and taller than his great rival Admiral Nelson (1758-1805) who was 5ft 4. The Duke of Wellington was only two inches taller, at 5ft 9.

Napoleon also imposed height requirements (above that of his own) on entry to the elite Imperial Guard, which included the Mounted Chasseurs who acted as his personal guard. For much of the time, the people around him would have been noticeably taller, adding to the impression of him being small.

The hugely popular British caricaturist James Gillray (1757-1815) produced the first and most influential image of a diminutive Napoleon in his Gulliver�s Travels-inspired cartoon, �The King of Brobdingnag and Gulliver� in which George III (1738-1820) holds Napoleon in the palm of his hand and inspects him with an eye-glass and comments, �I cannot but conclude you to be the one of the most pernicious little odious reptiles that nature ever suffered to crawl upon the surface of the Earth.�

[marijn van gils]

That shows again that history is written by the winners...

But darn, Marijn, hollowing out that expensive resin kit is not for the faint hearted. I reckon this is what makes the difference between a good modeller and an extra ordinary one.

Thanks Wouter!
Also, I guess that's a big psychological advantage about diorama modelling. When everything is modelled in function of telling a story, it is usually clear what needs to be done. And if something seems necessary in my mind, it becomes easier to overcome any fears.
In this case, I want to model an action scene, with guns in different positions, crew poking from the gunports, and battle damage (also to quarter galleries, stern, and their windows). So for me there was no doubt: hollow it must be!

That, and I never stopped modelling in my teens, which I think helped me to retain the childhood fearlessness!

Cheers,

Marijn

[Rui Matos]

Hi Marijn

Another project to follow with interest...
Keep us posted
You already have a big audience

Cheers
Rui

[LE BOSCO]

Hi Marijn

I almost missed this thread Here is a real modelmaker ... able to make an aircraft carrier, a wreck of aircraft carrier and go to the sailing navy with talent �.the mark of true artists this project promises to be sublime�.I will follow with interest
cheers
Nicolas

[NOVA73]

Hello

I discovered this giant project. Marijn, you embarked on a very beautiful advance. I will follow the progress of the project because of your mastery. this is going to be a true momument of art.

Best Regards.
Alain