Id'ing ships in an historical photo

[KevinD]

Gents, I thought this may be an appropriate place to post this pic here and ask what you think. (Moderators, if not please put into appropriate section.)

It was described when I got it as 'maybe the Eastern Fleet in 1941'. Hermes to left, supposedly Royal Sovereign center, supposedly Repulse next right and, again supposedly a County Class Cruiser far right (but I think the supposed CCC may be just another two funneled ship behind the one in front?, i.e, making one in front look three funneled, no?)

On another forum a very knowledgeable poster suggested "I think it is Hermes, R-Class, KGV or Iron Duke class, HMS Tiger. The photo was probably taken in the mid to late 1920s and before any County class cruisers were in service." And while I have no reason to doubt him thought I'd try for a 2nd opinion.

Anyway, interested in any input that may add certainty to ID of ships.

And yes, that's the best quality / clearest I can make the image without loosing too much detail. The lower one is how dark (and 'dirty', i.e. spotted) it was when I first got it!

TIA.

[Pusser509]

The ship with three funnels is likely HMS Tiger.

[SovereignHobbies]

Second from right is a King George V class, and the turrets are present.

King George V was laid off in 1926 whilst Centurion lost her turrets by 1927 in her refit as a target vessel. Ajax is likewise struck off in 1926.

Hence I believe this photograph is probably 1926 or earlier on the basis of this ship.

[SovereignHobbies]

The R-class second from the left has the high searchlight platforms abeam and slightly behind the funnel, flying off platforms, foretopmast slightly higher than the maintopmast, but the maintop yardarm higher than the foretop. Lastly, there is a structure between funnel and tripod foremast.

I think there might (but I'm not certain) be a sternwalk on the browner coloured photograph which would make this HMS Revenge which received the sternwalk about 1920. If the sternwalk isn't there, I'd say it was HMS Resolution or Ramillies. However, Resolution didn't lose her little tower thing that used to have a searchlight behind the mainmast until 1927-28.

Revenge and Ramillies lost theirs' in 1924-25 and 1923-24 respectively.

I'd probably got with Revenge, and that would narrow this photograph to 1925-1926.

[SovereignHobbies]

Extreme right is, I agree, most certainly HMS Tiger.

Tiger was wesring a dark/black rectangular panel on rhe middle 1/3 length of her hull until 1923 and didn't gain a mainmast until 1924, but the starfish platform on the mainmast visible in the "grey" photograph wasn't added until 1925-1926.

Everything here points to 1925-1926 for the date of the photo. HTH

[KevinD]

Thanks VERY much for the input gents, especially you James.

It has been suggested that a carrier lurks behind the R Class ship in left foreground, what thinks ye?

At first I thought so too, but 'deck' of said 'object', if it is a deck, appears too high IMO.

So, just to clarify then, leaving out whatever may or may not lurk behind the R Class, what order across would you name the ships as, starting with Hermes on left?

TIA

[SovereignHobbies]

From left to right I think they are probably:

Hermes
Revenge (but perhaps Ramillies)
King George V OR Ajax OR Centurion (I can't tell them Part here)
Tiger

That flat shape behind the stern of the R-class is a bit of a question mark. It could perhaps be Argus which could explain the lack of round down and island?

[KevinD]

Here is the best I can do with enlarging R Class to see 'behind'.

[SovereignHobbies]

Someone else may have better ideas but I fear I'd be clutching at straws trying to identify it from that. The only clue is a flat flightdeck without a big round down and a reasonable cantilever behind hangar deck above the stern... and no visible island.

If not Argus then Furious or Glorious might be good candidates.

[KevinD]

Someone else may have better ideas but I fear I'd be clutching at straws trying to identify it from that. The only clue is a flat flightdeck without a big round down and a reasonable cantilever behind hangar deck above the stern... and no visible island.

If not Argus then Furious or Glorious might be good candidates.

Argus seems to be a prime candidate on another forum (NavWeps). Among others the below;

"The ships appear to be HERMES, "R" class (not REVENGE, which had a sternwalk, and (depending on date) possibly not RESOLUTION, which had a funnel cap from October 1924), ARGUS (behind the "R" class"), KING GEORGE V (which decommissioned in September 1926) and TIGER."

AND from another poster (my underline emphasis);

"Could well be Argus, very difficult to tell from what�s visible. There also appears to be a third line of ships beyond the carriers, composed of auxiliaries. The one visible between the R and the KGV could be Greenwich although I certainly wouldn�t bet on that!

On the two funneled battleship, i�m not sure between KGV and an Iron Duke class, although the forecastle break may be a bit too prominent for the IDs. I can�t see any evidence of Q turret still being fitted - not that that helps identification as both KGV and Benbow (at least) had these removed at various points. Can�t be ID herself, at least after 1926, as she also lost B and Y turrets.

Given all of the above, a tentative identification is that this is part of the Atlantic Fleet at some time in the mid �20s."

[Rob]

I think L-R Hermes, Ramillies (no funnel cap and foretop mast), Centurion, Tiger. Carrier stern visible behind Ramillies is likely to be Argus.

Atlantic Fleet 1924-25?

[KevinD]

I think L-R Hermes, Ramillies (no funnel cap and foretop mast), Centurion, Tiger. Carrier stern visible behind Ramillies is likely to be Argus.

Atlantic Fleet 1924-25?

Pretty damn close!!!

The image has pretty conclusively been ID'd on another forum using aditional - but from different angle - photos, and a chart from the Fleet Reveiw of 1924, i.e. that is the pic in question shows the ships "undressed", so either just before (or maybe just after). I quote one posters comment:

"Which according to that chart would make it Hermes, Revenge, Argus, Centurian, Tiger.

With Hermes and Argus in a seperate rank behind. There would be several other capital ships out of view in the first rank to the left, including Queen Elizabeth, Resolution, Royal Soveriegn and Royal Oak, and Barham, Valiant, Warspite and Malaya in the second rank left of Hermes but out of view.�"