Calling all IJN Carrier fans (class comparisons)

[Dan K]

Well, I've given my view.

Gonna have to move this portion of the thread to the Soryu/Hiryu CASF at some point.

[Mike C]

I think it's the elevator and it has simply fallen over. It's possible that the elevator folded when it was blown out, which would explain why it looks larger in one photo. The direction of the smoke is significant, too, because the swells will come in the direction of the wind. That means Hiryu was rocking sideways between troughs and swells, which would also affect the stability of the elevator.

I can understand crew members rigging a sail on one of the ship's boats. They could have laid it out on deck before putting it on the boat, but even the most novice sailor would know that a sail that small would have no effect of a ship of that size.

[ijnfleetadmiral]

No, the item in front of the island is the forward elevator.

[Guest]

No, the item in front of the island is the forward elevator.

And you base you unequivocal assertion on what?

[MartinJQuinn]

No, the item in front of the island is the forward elevator.

And you base you unequivocal assertion on what?

I don't know, maybe all the previous posts that seem to indicate it's the elevator?

[Captain Morgan]

And you base you unequivocal assertion on what?

I don't know, maybe all the previous posts that seem to indicate it's the elevator?

But what would the survivors from the ship who say it was the elevator really know. I'm sure "guest" knows more than anyone else.

Sorry about being snippy, but this is getting old.

[Nino]

[quote=

But what would the survivors from the ship who say it was the elevator really know.
[/quote]


They might say "...going up"!

Nino

[Dan K]

Just to put this point to bed - I didn't note the specific page in Shattered Sword, but three eyewitness survivors are cited as to identifying the object in question as clearly being the forward elevator.

[raggs]

I'm really glad some of you folks have ability to really dig into these photos.

TF48, DanK, KUDO's.

I'm really impressed the elevator impregnated itself in the flight deck to begin with.
What are the chances??

I dont know Japanese Carriers, so there's nothing holding the elevator up on the port side
in the bow shot, correct??

Thanks,

Paul

[Nino]

Just to put this point to bed - I didn't note the specific page in Shattered Sword, but three eyewitness survivors are cited as to identifying the object in question as clearly being the forward elevator.

One more eyewitness from the USN side:

Lt jg Norman Kleiss was interviewed about his bombing of the Hiryu and in regard to his Bomb hitting the edge of the forward elevator and blowing it up and out toward the island, was recorded as saying this :
"... like a taco, rolled it back on top of itself."

For those interested in a possible Dio...

Seems like these 2 photos do show it bent almost in half and resting just forward of the island. The 2 bent segments of the elevator supporting the entire assm to keep it upright. I do not believe it shifted in any way between the taking of the two known photos. The different 'Look" of the 2 photos is due to reflections of portions of the elevator and other debris in my opinion.


Try making a cutout of the elevator in the same scale as your model. Bend it almost in half and place it on the deck. It does not need to lean against the island to remain upright. It does, however, seem to lean in toward the island. Note that the white deck stripe is visible on a section of the elevator and can give you a point of reference.


My take on this photo:

[DennisJP]

I'm not sure. Not enough information available. However, the Gakken IJN perfect guide favors metal:

Also it seems Ryujo was the only CV with wood planking side to side like US CV's

[Dan K]

That is true.

[jack venes]

OK, I have joined specifically for something that relates to this topic. I am intending to build a 1/144 radio control of one of the Taiyo class (not yet decided whether Taiyo Unyo or Chuyo) I have the Aoshima kit of Chuyo from more than 30 years ago and since my R/C model will be "stand off" this is probably all the detail that I will need. My only other reference is the Ian Allan Japanese warships book by A J Watts. My dilemma is that the model carries single (probably) 4.7" guns on sponsons, the box art appears to show two 5" twin DP on sponsons on the stbd side as does the drawing in the book. The superb camo drawings at the head of the topic show the 1st 2 ships with the single 4.7" as per the kit and the third shows the twin (4.7 or 5in) mounts spaced equally each side fore and aft. I have trawled endlessly on line trying to resolve the contradictions, does anyone have any more solid information on the arrangement of the sponsons or can recommend a book or website to help resolve this? Many Thanks

[Dan K]

Only the lead ship, Taiyo, carried 6 single mount 4.7cm guns. The other two carried 4 twin 12.7cm mounts.

Should be an impressive build.

[thebunkerparodie]

Since the shinano doesn't have a post,I decided to do it and I have some question ,particulary regarding some interpretation who put a crane on the rear of the ship while other not (the fujimi one for example and hasegawa made it optional),now since the shinano was sunk uncomplete,it seem like everyone who did this ship in model (tamiya,fujimi and hasegawa) did it completed.
here is a good link on how it would have looked if completed as a battleship https://warshipprojects.com/2018/04/24/ ... s-genesis/

[KSuM3]

Information on Shinano has been posted in the Calling IJN Carrier Fans (viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4717).

The crane folds into the deck, like other IjN carriers. My guess is that the crane was installed at the time of her commissioning. But, there are only 3 known photos of her, 2 of which were taken at high altitude so they are very low resolution photos that are not good enough to make out any details. The 3rd photo was taken during sea trials but doesn�t show the crane up. Most models I�ve seen of her include a deck load of aircraft and the crane, even though she didn�t have an assigned air group at the time of her loss. She was transporting a load of Okha flying bombs to be offloaded when she reached Kure. Call it artistic license when you see the aircraft (I�m currently working on the Hasegawa 1/450 kit and plan to put aircraft on because a carrier doesn�t look right without a deck load of aircraft).

[jack venes]

Thanks for the info Dan K. This will be my first R/C carrier of any type, previously I have just made HM Cruisers and a couple of Destroyers. Didn't want to post pictures here as its off topic. I think I will stick to the arrangement on the Aoshima kit that I have, just copy as best I can and hope for the best. I only do "stand off" because this is probably my upper skill level and money is my prime consideration. Not looking forward to scratchbuilding a couple of Zeros either. Thanks again.

[Ed R]

You are correct that Shinano never had an air group assigned but the ship did conduct some aircraft trials underway that involved aircraft landing and launching. I believe one of the aircraft was a "Grace" torpedo bomber.

[Dan K]

FWIW, Sweet makes really nice 1/144 scale aircraft including various Zero marks: https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/search?typ1_ ... ntry=Japan

[ijnfleetadmiral]

You are correct that Shinano never had an air group assigned but the ship did conduct some aircraft trials underway that involved aircraft landing and launching. I believe one of the aircraft was a "Grace" torpedo bomber.

She did, however have, Hikochos (Air Officers) assigned:

(Equipping Officer) - CDR Sakinaga Yoshiro (54) - 15 September 1944 - 1 October 1944
(Equipping Officer) - LCDR Shiga Yoshio (62) - 1 October 1944 - 19 November 1944
LCDR Shiga Yoshio (62) - 19 November 1944 - 29 November 1944

According to Enright's book Shinano!, Shiga was not aboard for the final voyage; he was waiting for the ship in Kure.