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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 7:07 pm 
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Thanks for the clarification, Maarten

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 11:53 am 
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Hi Maarten
I just now looked at your post again on the Kaiser Class . After looking at the plans on the Dreadnought Project, I noticed the body lines or sections at the stern start at frame no. 48 . I was concerned about the frames before that ,and there it is photos you posted of her upside down showing the area that is not on the plans. You must have been reading my mind. Do you have any of the body lines before no.48? If not do you think your photos are enough to make a good hull . That is a stupid question as you would not be doing it if you feel there wasn't enough info of the stern .
Thank you for your offer to help as I will need it . I am giving you credit for your help on my post here in US and will also post on this web site . It shows you do alot of research on your builds .
Richard


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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2019 8:30 pm 
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Hi Maarten
Wish there were section drawings for station positions 44 and 46 on the " Dreadnought Project " plans of Fridrich der Grosse . I will need your advice on that area when I start. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 2:05 am 
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Richard OMalley wrote:
Hi Maarten
Wish there were section drawings for station positions 44 and 46 on the " Dreadnought Project " plans of Fridrich der Grosse . I will need your advice on that area when I start. :wave_1:

Hi Richard,

You are picking my brain, man! :smallsmile:

I wish too that those rearward section drawings had survived the time, or a good official line drawing of the hull for that matter! But alas, to my knowledge it has disappeared over time. ' Verschwunden!'

I am as much in the dark as you. However, I was reasoning that the line of dreadnought designs of the German Imperial Navy had a logical evolution, each class being very much based on the previous one with distinct alterations. So I reckoned that using the ICM 1:350 König class hull could be used with slight changes for the other classes. This worked pretty well for the Baden: http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=27003&p=715524&hilit=sms+baden#p715524, hence I decided to take it a step further to the Kaiser class.

So I can't help you any further than this, if you really need to have the sections aft of 'Spant 48' you will either have to loft these yourself, based on the rest of the plans, or adapt from one of the other classes: here are the lines of the Bayern class.
Attachment:
05 red.jpg
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For comparison, just to show how similar these hulls were, here the sections of the Nassau class ('Haccay' is 'Nassau' in Cyrillic/Russian letters).
Attachment:
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Btw, adaptation using a ICM hull worked also in this case, the biggest differences were higher up in the hull. http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=149535

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 2:54 am 
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Richard OMalley wrote:
Hi Maarten
I make fiberglass hulls for RC models here in the US .I am thinking of making SMS Friedrich der Grosse in 1/100.

Richard

Hi Richard,

I just came across this: a good kit of the Kaiser class in 1:100 scale seems to exist already: http://www.ml-modelships.com.ua/mlmodellship.php?ln=ru&page=Friedrich_der_Grosse

Yes, this is from Russia, maybe you can't even open the website in stateside US! Let me know what you think.

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 6:16 am 
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Hi Maarten
With the information you have posted there will be no problem making a accurate Kaiser Class hull . My interest in WWI German Battleships and Battle Cruisers has grown thanks to your help . You and your work are a inspiration!
My e-mail address is ( richardjomalley@yahoo.com )
Lets stay in touch.
Richard


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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 7:25 am 
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Richard OMalley wrote:
Hi Maarten
With the information you have posted there will be no problem making a accurate Kaiser Class hull . My interest in WWI German Battleships and Battle Cruisers has grown thanks to your help . You and your work are a inspiration!
My e-mail address is ( richardjomalley@yahoo.com )
Lets stay in touch.
Richard


With pleasure, Richard! My email is (maarten.schonfeld-at-skynet.be)
I was only concerned that you might not be aware that a Kaiser class kit already existed. Maybe it's not available at all in the US so there might still be a market for you. It would be pityful if you only found out after you made the plug!

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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 8:04 pm 
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Maarten
Is the " at " in your email address the word at or @
Richard


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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 12:40 am 
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Richard OMalley wrote:
Maarten
Is the " at " in your email address the word at or @
Richard

@, but you should also delete the hyphens! :smallsmile:

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2019 5:57 am 
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Maarten
For some reason I cant send you a email. Try sending me one so I can reply to it .


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:47 pm 
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Looking at the plans from The Dreadnought Project, and comparing against photos...

Were the bow and stern below-deck 88mm guns ever mounted? Or were they deleted and plated over before commissioning?

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:46 am 
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SeanF wrote:
Looking at the plans from The Dreadnought Project, and comparing against photos...

Were the bow and stern below-deck 88mm guns ever mounted? Or were they deleted and plated over before commissioning?

- Sean F.

It seems the bow guns were plated over, however at least in SMS Kaiser the stern guns seem to have been fitted.
Attachment:
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SMS_Kaiser_89356_aft.jpg [ 51.35 KiB | Viewed 1006 times ]
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kaiserl_03.jpg
kaiserl_03.jpg [ 61.55 KiB | Viewed 1006 times ]
Attachment:
kaiserl_04.jpg
kaiserl_04.jpg [ 87.21 KiB | Viewed 1006 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:17 pm 
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Great photos, thanks Maarten!

What do you make of the stern gun covers? The photos don't match the drawings - which imply a rectangular hinged (?) cover with no portholes. I think I see some very faint vertical lines in the first photo - perhaps two panels with an accordion-fold between them for the two portholes forward of each gun, and a single swinging panel for the aftmost portholes to open up the gun ports for action? (Getting ready to start my own build, and thinking it might be interesting to open up the stern like this)

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:17 pm 
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Sean, I really don't know! I haven't fitted these guns yet to my own model.

But I think there must be some pintle support just inside the skin, allowing the gun both to traverse and to elevate in a limited arc. I can't see any covers hinged or otherwise. The contraption then is much like the flexible guns in WW2 bomber aircraft, if you see my comparison. As there are large portholes close to the gun sighting shouldn't be a problem.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:40 pm 
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I see a few more clues in the drawings from The Dreadnought Project:

While the side view in takelriss_100dpi shows a single-piece rectangular door with rounded corners, langsschnitt_100dpi implies hard corners and has additional vertical lines that correspond to the faint lines I see between portholes in the photos. (Neither drawing, as mentioned before, show any portholes on the gun cover door at all.) This second drawing also indicates that the guns are in tubs slightly lower than the adjacent deck.

The plan view file titled zwischendeck_100dpi indicates that these tubs are octagonal (until they are intercepted by the curvature of the hull), and the guns are conventionally mounted on a pedestal - I don't think they'd be able to revise the pivot point to the hull exit socket, so I'm pretty sure the doors must be able to open somehow. (I'm thinking of something similar to Arizona's casemate gun doors, when they were using the hard covers instead of the canvas drapes). Oddly, there are what look like a couple of armchairs lapping over into the sunken tubs... maybe they're not sunken at all? (obviously the chairs are movable and are just shown there for examples - likewise the large conference table and chairs must be able to move, else they'd impede the gunners) Given the turning radii and the need to access the breeches, there's definitely not enough room in there for a bulkhead between the mounts, so one should be able to see clear through the ship if both doors were opened.
So... new "Holy Grail" photo search: A Kaiser-class ship with the chaser gun ports opened!
I'm gonna go for it in my build - and if the proof doesn't appear before it's time to install the doors, I'll just have to take my best guess!

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:13 am 
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So... new "Holy Grail" photo search: A Kaiser-class ship with the chaser gun ports opened!


Well, if you find it, please post it! :smallsmile:

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