The Ship Model Forum

Oh wow, learn something every day. Didn't know any Essex carriers had single quad 40mms. Seems like a waste of real estate. Looks like CV-9 has the single mount. Honestly if that's the biggest problem I may be able to put my feeble skills to work trying to make it look ok. Thanks for the heads up!

It wasn't a single 40mm - it was a single quad 40mm mount. The short hulls were all originally launched with one quad 40mm mount on the very stern. Beginning with the longhulls two quads were mounted on the stern, and this was retrofitted to the short hulls as they came in for modification and upgrade. Intrepid was a bit of an oddball in that she received the extra starboard side quads under the island but initially not the two stern quads. I believe that she and Lexington received this configuration for a time as they were the first to get the extra starboard quads, before the stern quad upgrades were approved for the class. They both received them later, but the kits reflect the later, "ultimate" configuration.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Interesting. Thanks for the history lesson. Honestly the more you learn about WW2 the more fascinating it is. Each ship having it's own history and peculiarities with regards to retrofits. It's very sad that these wonderful boats don't have better documentation.

Anyway, based on your input I think I'll go with the Franklin model. I'll have a go at making a single quad mount. There also seems to be a difference with the aft superstructure 20mm oerlikons as well that I will attempt to address.

I have my first day off tomorrow and with any luck I'll be able to visit the Intrepid in person and put an order in for the model. Again, thank you so much. People like you helping out with this community have done more to help improve knowledge of the subject matter than any single source, and it's very appreciated.

Getting an extra quad mount won't be difficult - there are some good 3D printed ones out now. The bigger work is going to be the gun tub and structure underneath. Look at the stern mount on this CV-9 stern photo and this CV-10 one and compare to this later CV-10 photo and this so-so quality one. The later two are what the CV-10 and CV-13 kits come with, the first two are what Intrepid had at the time of the kit you want to depict.

A single quad mount may be something that MoelMonkey would be willing to CAD up and offer, since the basic shape work is already done.

Also, slowly working on a book on the class, but have decided to put one out on the Independence CVLs first as they're a little simpler and it will let me experiment with table data and other formats a little easier.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Let me clarify what I was trying to say - I wasn't suggesting have Steve to the actual quad mount itself, but the single quad mount gun tub for the stern, with the angled foundation that fairs into the hull. The part already exists in the CV-9 Essex kit, but it's a bit expensive to buy the kit for just that single part.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Yeah, definitely out of my price range. Carriers cost a lot to begin with. But thanks for the reference pics David. I may try my hands at a custom job.. Probably look awful but may be worth a try

I started work on a Dragon 1/700 Lexington, and as I am installing the roll up doors, something occurred to me, which I could not find in my references, and that was how they got the planes onto the port elevator?

Were the supports removable?

Yes, there was a combination of methods for them to fold out of the way. I don't have any really good photos of the deck-edge elevator, but on the hangar catapult openings the middle three folded up against the overhead and the outer two were more of a sideways move.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy for the reply. There really isn't any good photos showing how these are moved out of the way and stowed when the elevator is in use.

I think you can see the remnants of one in this photo of CV-19 Hancock, but the area of the overhead I believe it would fasten to was distorted by the bombs that went off in the TBM above this area.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Quick confirmation of the AA fit of Essex in late 1943 (Gilberts operations). Did she already receive the two quad 40mm on the starboard side aft at hangar deck level? Were the 20mm galleries hanging off the very rear end of the flight deck removed? It's very difficult to make out in pictures but it looks like they aren't there.

As per Navy departure reports the 20mm gun galleries underneath the aft flight deck overhang were moved to the catwalk galleries at Pearl Harbor Navy Yard between June 12th and 21st, 1943, before the Gilberts operation. This location was found to vibrate too much at speed but they kept it on the long hull Essexes when they had the short flight decks as the shorter structure was more stiff and the vibrations weren't as bad.

Four quad 40mm gun mounts were mounted to the main deck (hangar deck level) at the March-April 1944 overhaul at Mare Island (which was her last one for the rest of the war!). These were the two in the area of the old hangar deck catapult sponson, port side forward, and the two aft starboard ones you are inquiring about. So you can leave these off for a 1943 build.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy. When you say the 20mm were moved to the the catwalk galleries, where exactly were they moved to?

The Departure report calls for the galleries to be moved to the catwalks on the starboard side between frames 191 and 195 and 207 and 212. It references plans that are not included. However, we can see in this picture of Essex on her Navsource Page that she has one two-gun gallery between the aft starboard corner and aft radio aerial (and you can see the support structure underneath) and another one in between them. If you have the AOTS Intrepid book you should be able to work more precisely.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Yup, I see it now, thank you. Cross-referenced with the Interpid book and some photos of CV-10 that show the stern better. Interstingly, Trumpeter includes these starboard twin galleries in their kit, in the correct positions, in addition to the aft end overhanging ones. Guess I don't need to move anything, just omit the ones I don't want

It's a much easier mistake to deal with than the other way around!

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Can someone please tell me what the pipes are down the hull of the ship? Are they

If you're referring to the mostly horizontal piping below the roller doors that was the aviation gasoline piping. Once the aviation gasoline system was outside of the ship's armor (which ended on the hangar deck) the gasoline system was routed outside the structure so that if it was pierced when full of gas the majority. if not all, of the gasoline would burn off or vent off outside instead of inside the ship. This was a lesson of CV-2 Lexington's loss and the ships would additionally drain the systems when not in use in case of surprise attack. The pips themselves ran up to refueling stations on the catwalks that had refueling/defueling pumps and hoses.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thank you! I’ve been trying to figure it out for a Cv9 build and it seems to correspond with the placement of the gasoline stations on the catwalks

I've got the dragon 1/700 Lexington and the Trumpeter 1/700 Yorktown I want to build both as they appeared in June/August 45. I think both kits are late 44 ships is this correct and what major external changes would be required? Thanks