At 'Em Arizona Fans!

[MartinJQuinn]

If I missed this earlier in the thread I apologize...

I'm working on my 1916 Arizona model and have begun applying paint. Does anybody know whether the decks above the main decks were light grey, dark grey, wood planked, or brown linoleum?

Also, were the ships boats painted the same grey as the ship? What color were the interior/upper surfaces of the ships boats?

Thanks!

Maybe this will help. It's from 1927, but not sure the decks or boats would be any different.

Courtesy of Roger Torgeson

[Roger Torgeson]

OK Martin spill the beans, were did you find the 1927 over head photo you posted? if it's a NARA image I could see myself hunting it down, any idea the photo number?

[Jeff Sharp]

I'm always on the lookout for better versions of this film that shows some amazing on deck detail of USS Arizona. The footage of this film was shot on April 1, 1941 and was the most valuable reference I used back when I was building my 1/200 kit.
This "Periscope film" version is by far NOT the best quality version out there but it shows you the film in its entirety before snipets of the footage started to find their way into other Navy films.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMlSGtAFi-E

I came across a couple of those snipets and even though they are colorized with mostly incorrect color (i.e. gray top on turret #2 as opposed to red, and tan hatch covers), I am amazed how clear these shots are. A ton of detail can now be seen that I could never make out in any other version of the film I've seen before.
Check out the thing they attached to the gun barrels with the eyelets for the rope lines to the muzzle covers. Notice also all the differences between the two winches and the canvas cover on the port side wildcat.

[MartinJQuinn]

Notice also all the differences between the two wenches

I don't see no wenches!

[Wedgie01]

Thanks for the photos Jeff, but in particular for posting the You-Tube video link. Much appreciated, as I hadn't seen that before.

[BB62vet]

M.J.Q. wrote:

I don't see no wenches!

LMAO!!!!!!

Will this do:

USN & Betty Boop.JPG (39.16 KiB) Viewed 4286 times

Jeff,

The word is "winches", not "wenches" - next thing you know you'll have PITA, NOW, and all the wacko feme-Nazi's out there stampeding the dock!!!!

[Jeff Sharp]

LOL! Oops!

[Jon C Ryckert]

Jeff, do you think the possibility is there that this film was colorized at one point? Looking at parts of the fairleads on the starboard side, it appears that they are the same color as the deck, port winch and hatches. just my observation.

[Jeff Sharp]

Hi Jon,
Yes, these stills that I posted are colorized. The person that colorized them found a very clean copy of the film. I would love to find the entire film in this same clarity as these stills. There are a couple of vendors that sell versions of this film but none of them come close to the quality of these stills.

[BB62vet]

Jeff,

Still chuckling....

But, Seriously - those stills are really GREAT - the detail is quite nice to have. And a word about the shipboard canvas back then - there WAS light brown or tan canvas used quite extensively for covering equipment on deck. So, it's possible the colorist wasn't that far off in his palette. I also agree that his work wasn't 100% at the same time. So hard to come up with a correct choice from those old B/W photos and film.

Hank

[lgmccauley]

Jeff,
I wish I would have seen these pictures when I was building my 1/192 Arizona. The bottom picture shows the routing of the paravane chain as wrapping around two pulleys just aft of the winches and going across the deck. I have them entering the deck just before the capstans. Thoughts?

Larry

[Jeff Sharp]

Hi Larry,
I'm not really sure how the whole paravane system worked but in this pic there are 2 chains on the starboard side that do terminate at the capstans but I believe one of them is connected to a cable. That cable is what you see going through the pulleys, wrapping around to the port side and through another set of pulleys and meeting up with another pair of chains much higher up on the port side bow.

[lgmccauley]

I agree about the cables Jeff. They are much too thin to be chain.

Larry

[BB62vet]

My guess would be that the "cable" is actually wire rope, but what diameter is hard to determine (1" or less...???). In the upper part of the photo where this wire rope ends in some form of deck fitting - it's very hard to also determine what it connects to above that fitting. Perhaps somewhere else a more definitive photos is out there that shows the paravane rigging in clear detail.

Hank

[Jeff Sharp]

I came across a couple more looks at the elusive mushroom vents on top of the large square vents that are hiding under the boat cradles. This concept still baffles me.
Also, here again we see the deck of the veggie locker was not teaked in the 30's. I still cannot find a 1940's view of this area to see if this deck was ever teaked before her destruction.

[BB62vet]

Jeff,

That is a conundrum, for sure! Here is the same area on BB-38:

Skylights are the only items below the boats on PENNSY. The deck below was the crew's galley. I'm not sure of ARIZONA's internal arrangement.

Hank

[Jon C Ryckert]

Jeff, noticed that the decks appear to be very dark as if they just were washed. Is it possible that the deck above the vegetable locker had not been washed yet? I noticed that there is a 'lip' that separates the boat deck from the vegetable locker. Had never seen that before.

[Jeff Sharp]

Here is a view of the same deck on top of the veggie locker in 1939. The ship was moving very fast under the Golden Gate Bridge so its a bit blurry but these stills suggest the veggie locker deck was teaked at this time.

[Jim Azelton]

RE: Paravane rigging...

[Jim Azelton]

It has been quite a while since I last posted -- life getting busy and whatnot -- and I've been catching up on the builds and discussion -- great stuff! Many of the details mentioned since I last posted in 2018 are details I have been researching as well -- guess I do not have a "monopoly" on those details anymore! LOL Just a few notes for a few things which jumped out at me while catching up:
*The appearance of wood decking on the small "triangle" at the forward casemate position on the hull -- correct, drawings show teak there. I do not know if/when that was removed or if it as intact at PH.
*The area directly under the veg locker on the main deck had a passageway creating a "tunnel" left to right -- can be seen in a couple of post-modernization pics.
*The paravane rigging is shown in the screen grab I posted yesterday and is for Arizona but I would imagine it is a common rig for other ships as well.
*throwback to the last discussion Jeff, Tracy and I had regarding my gun tub interpretation -- the tub base IS square and the support for the director was "more correct" on my first rendition (i.e., thicker and not a pole support) and it had four gussets supporting it at the deck level.

*RE: separation between boat deck and top of veg locker mentioned above. I have seen drawings indicating wood decking as well as metal -- depending on the time-frame. In the screen shot attached, there is clearly a metal "flange" or edge between the two areas (original photo dated 13 May 1942). Also, the "dots" showing on the deck are bolts used to hold the wood decking to the underlying steel. This entire area was Douglas Fir according to drawings. From what I can tell, the veg locker and the various structure under it were actually removable due to the hatches for the two inboard turbines. The drawings indicate "portable" for these structures, so IMO, the separation makes sense, as a clean break for the wood decking if the structure did get removed for turbine access.

Jim