Calling all Fletcher-class (DD-445) fans

[JohnMGD]

Hello,

On December 14th I placed a question about John Robert Barrette's FLETCHER Cutaway drawings, but nobody seems to have any information about these drawings, which is rather strange, because they were available for a long time and when I tried to order, the site was suddenly gone, Still hope someone can help me !!!

[Rick E Davis]

Since the artist is apparently dead and no one is running his outfit, the website name has been transferred to a different business, the drawings are not available. If you Google "Fletcher class cutaway drawings", you will find several different versions of cutaway drawings available online. Most are NOT colored versions like John Robert Barrette's drawings, but they would appear to be accurate depictions of the interior layout. Like;

... http://destroyerhistory.org/fletchercla ... &width=910 ...

... https://maritime.org/doc/plans/dd502.pdf ...

I had issues with his series of drawings. He only drew-up a very few examples for rather large classes of destroyers, like the FLETCHERS had only two configurations (Round-Bridge and Square-Bridge), and simply put different hull numbers and names to one of those drawings. One of the worse examples to me was USS CHEVALIER (DD-451) that served until lost in October 1943, with a single quad 1.1-in mount, he presented her as a typical five twin 40-mm mounts unit!!! And there were other units like this lost early in the war in a configuration he didn't draw up. So I never ordered any of his drawings. I never bothered to compare his FLETCHER class cutaways available against the actual configuration at NARA. The engineering plant and basic layout was the same for all the FLETCHERS. There were major bridge and a few adjustments to the superstructure between the Round-Bridge and Square-Bridge units.

... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix1/0545104.jpg ...

The cutaway version posted on Navsource, with a overlaid watermark.

... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0545109.jpg ...

How the real USS CHEVALIER looked like in July 1943.

... http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/pix2/0545111.jpg ...

[JohnMGD]

Thanks Rick, so I probably don't have to bother getting them, because of the inaccuraty of the drawings !! But still it is a pity that the existing drawings online are too small, I did not find any Hi-Res cut away drawings, except of USS Sigsbee DD-502 on a different site, of the Fletchers.

[Gewehr_43]

Hi, gang. I'm back and still making good progress on the Heermann. I've still got a lot of work to do, but she's coming along well. I'm currently looking to build the mast assembly. I've got the SC2 built and set aside, now I need to determine ladder arrangements, fighting lights, etc. I have a feeling some of the struts that are molded onto the Trumpeter part are going to have to go, but I'm having trouble finding good, closeup photos of the mast above about the top of the gun director. Anyone have any of those stashed away somewhere? Googling and both of the Warship Pictorial volumes get me close, but not quite close enough.

[Rick E Davis]

Gewehr_43,

What was installed on the foremasts changed throughout the war, but generally followed certain conventions. ALL USN ships had to have the same radios to communicate with other USN ships and fighting lights. Starting in late 1944, RCM (Radar Countermeasures) equipment antennas started to appear along with more radio antennas.

I have attached close cropped image views of the foremast on USS HEERMANN (head-on and profile) and her sister USS HAZELWOOD. The images of HEERMANN in 1944 was a bit blurry, but collectively, I think all these images will answer your questions. In general you can see what HEERMANN had installed in August 1944, but can get a better view of the same antennas, etc installed on HAZELWOOD.

Here are two close crop images of USS HEERMANN (DD-532) mast as completed and then in August 1944, not long before the Philippines Campaign. The "object" on the starboard side of HEERMANN's mast, is a sailor. Although a standard part of the crew, he normally wouldn't be permanently attached.





Here is another image of USS HAZELWOOD (DD-531)

[Gewehr_43]

Thank you again, Rick. That'll get me where I need to go! Ladders were the hardest part to determine. They just simply don't show up well in photos.

[Gewehr_43]

Okay, stupid newbie question, but did ships in measure 32 camouflage schemes have a black boot stripe at the waterline? Finding a definitive answer is turning out to be far more difficult than I imagined. :/

[Rick E Davis]

Yes. Or rather it is suppose to be there. Sometimes, when the crew was applying the top coat "camo" paint, they may have over topped the boot stripe in places or completely. However, because of the nature of the boot stripe paint the camo paint wore off fairly quickly at sea.

None of the "top coat" paints were super adherent paint like the hull underwater paints, unless the hull was properly prepped to be repainted. But, the ship's crews were touching up and sometimes doing total repainting of particularly the hull during down times without doing a totally proper prep job ... if any.

[katobase]

Sorry if my other post appear, i forgot to logon.... if any mod sees it please remove it

I'm working on a resin fletcher kit right now, the manufacturer molded the two funnels exactly the same, and many pictures i seen the fletcher's second funnel seems to be shorter, so i went ahead shortened the second funnel.
But the more pictures i look, the more i doubt myself, this is her right now:



have i gone too far?

[Timmy C]

You can use the General Arrangement drawing here to compare: https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads ... /dd502.pdf

[katobase]

You can use the General Arrangement drawing here to compare: https://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads ... /dd502.pdf

awesome! thanks for the reference

[DeepDiver]

I have Revell�s Platinum Fletcher sitting on my bench. It really wants me to begin the build; however, I am bogged down in research.

I cannot find anything about her seawater intake/exhaust system. I seem to remember a gentleman here who had started a Fletcher, but seemed to drop off the board after a while. He had started to scratch build those intakes and exhausts.

Does anyone know where I can find information on these units? I have a stack on reference material on Fletchers, but none that show (what I think anyway) are the critical details of these units.

Any suggestions?

[BB62vet]

I have all that information that was posted a couple years ago. Yea it seems his build just kind of went off and never was completed. The locations of the hull openings on a typical FLETCHER class DD can be found on the drydock plans for one of those ships. Several versions of those plans are out there, I actually have a couple of them in .pdf version. They are rather large prints at 1/8" scale (as originally drawn) and reduced to 1/144 scale (which is what you'll need), make a much more manageable (but - fairly unreadable) plan to work with. So, there are ways to get around that, it just takes some drafting "know-how" (I am a retired CAD/board draftsman/designer and still have my hand in it!), and a printer!

I also have the Revell FLETCHER kit (1/144 scale) and plan to bash it into my first duty station USS STODDARD (DD-566) in her 1966-68 configuration. I have also drawn up most of the CAD drawings I'll need to rebuild the model into a 1960's era FLETCHER.

PM me and we'll go from there.

[Rick E Davis]

Jim,

You didn't state which ship and what timeframe/configuration of a FLETCHER you are going to model. Most of the "openings" on the hull will be the same, but the underwater sound equipment is another matter. There are significant differences from 1942 to 1970's, with several different locations and dome sizes involved.

Here are images of the docking plan drawings that Hank is talking about, showing a typical WWII era underwater "layout" for a late-war FLETCHER with a retractable sonar and dome. These drawings are nice, because they give dimensions on the locations. You need engineering drawings to get accurate views of the openings/devices themselves.

If you are going to go to all the trouble to model these details, you need to display the ship on a mirrored surface. Otherwise NO ONE will be able to see them.

[BB62vet]

Hey Rick....

Thanks!! You just printed what I was going to send him. BUT....I also have a copy of the overall docking plan that he'll probably need also.

Hank

[DeepDiver]

Gentlemen, thank you so much for your replies!

I was hoping to depict U.S.S. O�Bannon in the �potato throwing� time frame, so April 1943.

[Rick E Davis]

USS O'BANNON and the initial early FLETCHER class units had the original planned two sonar systems installed side-by-side in sea-chests on either side of the keel. They were near the bow at Frame 25. The original installation was like the pre-war destroyers where the transducers were lowered into the water for operations. However, use of the sonar was limited to lower speeds. To allow operation at desired operational speeds, a dome was installed on ONE of the sonars, the one on the portside. A study was done to see if a larger dome could be installed over both sonars, but was found to be too large and with too much drag penalty. Because of the huge demand for sonar equipment on ASW vessels of all types and the difficulty of producing the unique crystals used in sonar systems built at the time, in August 1942, the USN ordered that only one sonar system would be installed in Fleet Destroyers, but the other sea-chest would be retained and a plate installed over the opening. Destroyers that had the both sonars installed and were still being fitted out or would be going through post-shakedown yard period, had one sonar system removed (the starboard side) and plated over and a dome installed. Even with two sonar systems, the portside sonar had a dome installed over it.

USS O'BANNON would have been one of the few destroyers that became operational and actually were sent to the Pacific, before the one sonar only directive went out, had two sonar systems with a dome over the portside unit. There were several different types of sonar domes installed during the war, but in scale models, they all would look very similar. The images below show the sea-chest, its location, and several images of typical sonar dome installations. The bottom most image, was a mid-to-late war dome type being longer. The object sticking out in front of the dome in the first installed dome image, was a retractable calibration device. During operational use it would have been retracted.

[Willie]

Hi there all,

A question for you all experts, and please excuse my ignorance. What is this kind of cage that can be seen in some Fletchers, and could somebody have a close up of it ?

TIA for your attention and precious help, and very best regards from this side,

Willie.[/size]

[Rick E Davis]

Willie,

That "cage" structure was designed for capturing spent shell casings from the RFG 3-in guns. Trying to get good views of these is a bit hard. Finding a drawing is even worse. But, I hope these images help. I wouldn't be surprised if the construction of these cages varied from yard to yard and over time if an improvement was "found".

[Willie]

Hi there Mr. Davis and all,

That "cage" structure was designed for capturing spent shell casings from the RFG 3-in guns. Trying to get good views of these is a bit hard. Finding a drawing is even worse. But, I hope these images help. I wouldn't be surprised if the construction of these cages varied from yard to yard and over time if an improvement was "found".

Your answer couldn�t be faster, and, as usual, it is perfect, and leaves nothing to imagination.
Thanks a million for your help, and very best regards from Spain,

Willie.