Calling all "41 for Freedom" SSBN fans

[MartinJQuinn]

Looking for a James Madison class model in 1/350 scale. Can anyone point me in the right direction.

Yankee Modelworks made a 1/350 resin kit (#35016) of the USS Daniel Boone, a Lafayette Class sub. According to Wiki, the differences between Lafayette and Madison class subs was internal.

MicroMir makes a 1/350 Daniel Webster. There are several currently available on eBay. FreeTime Hobbies also has it listed as in stock.

[Vepr157]

I agree with Martin on the Mikro-Mir kit (the Yankee Model Works kit, if you can find it, is less detailed). Blue Ridge sells the Lafayette and the Webster, so those would be suitable as a Madison (although the Webster would have to be modified to eliminate her unusual "mini-sail"). Apart from the usual ship-to-ship differences, they were identical to the Lafayettes except for the missiles initially fitted, as Martin said.

Jacob

[CC Clarke]

Hi Jacob,

I just re-read this thread and thought I might be able to answer your question.

The flood grates for all six Main Ballast Tanks were virtually the same on the 598 class. (I served aboard the 600 - the "Ever-Ready, Never-Steady, Teddy".) When she was drydocked in Guam, (where we conducted patrols with the help of the venerable Proteus) all of us non-qual, nubletts were required to enter the drydock basin and eyeball everything, which made getting the sig for Tanks and Compartments on our qual cards a lot easier, since we could relate to what was drawn in the piping tab to what we'd seen.

The DCTs (Depth Control Tanks) shown inboard of MBT 4 A/B were part of the Trim and Drain system (the DCTs were located in the aft end of the Rocket Room - nobody ever called it "Sherwood Forest".) These tanks were larger due to the added mass of the Missile Compartment compared to the original Skipjack class design. DCTs are the heart of the Hovering system, used to maintain the ship at a prescribed depth (like launch depth.) A submarine cannot remain still when losing the mass of a missile unless an equal amount of water is used to compensate for the missile and water flooded into the missile tube. The main Hovering valve (HOV-1) was a high-speed valve used to move water between both tanks and the sea to keep the ship level.

Without having seen a Skipjack class Tanks and Compartments layout, I don't know what the original arrangement looked like before their designs were modified for boomer duty. Maybe someone with more detailed knowledge can respond.

CCC

[Vepr157]

Hi CCC,

Thanks for the info! Fortunately, I've since gotten a hold of the compartments & access pages from a 598 TAB. The locations (for anyone else wanting to model) are:

MBT 1, 2A/2B, 3A/3B (external) - same as Skipjack
MBT 3A/3B (internal) - one pair between fr. 29 and 30, and a second pair between fr. 30 and 31
MBT 4A/4B - one pair between fr. M46 and M47, and a second pair between fr. M49 and M50
MBT 5A/5B, 6A/6B - same as Skipjack (where these MBTs were numbered 4A/4B and 5A/5B)
MBT 7A/7B - on pair between fr. 63 and 64 (due to addition of SPM)

Jacob

[maccrage]

Does anyone have a good image or drawing of the towed array fairing on the Franklin class? I want to do a late fit boat. Thanks to Maarten's posts, I already know about the control surface modifications I need to make.

Here is Von Steuben with Pogy after primering.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Does anyone have a good image or drawing of the towed array fairing on the Franklin class? I want to do a late fit boat. Thanks to Maarten's posts, I already know about the control surface modifications I need to make.

Here is Von Steuben with Pogy after primering.

A towed array on a Franklin class? I honestly never heard of that! Only on the SSNs I believe. Or have I missed something?

[Vepr157]

A towed array on a Franklin class? I honestly never heard of that! Only on the SSNs I believe. Or have I missed something?

Yep, pretty much all of the Polaris SSBNs had towed arrays. The 598-class SSBNs just had a tow point on their starboard stabilizer for a clip-on STASS towed array:



The 608 and 616 classes (and the 640 class, if you want to consider them as a separate class) probably initially got similar tow points, which is what I think this photo of the Henry Clay shows:



They subsequently got reelable BQR-15 towed arrays. The drums that stored the cable were inside a hump on the starboard side of the turtleback:



The array was stored in a fairing that went to the starboard stabilizer:





This photo of the Will Rogers and a drawing I have of the Francis Scott Key suggest that there was an alternate arrangement where the towed array fairing took a more direct route to the stabilizer like the tubes on the 594 and 637-class SSNs:



Here is a photo showing three 640-class SSBNs and one 608 class, all with BQR-15s:

[maccrage]

Excellent! Those are exactly what I was looking for.

[maccrage]

Even though there is no fairing, MikroMir kindly includes the hump as a seperate piece.

[CC Clarke]

The STASS (Submarine Towed Array Sonar System) installed aboard the 598 class contained a hinged stub cable storage compartment located on the starboard stern plane stabilizer that contained enough cable to reach topside with a couple of figure 8 turns thrown in for good measure. A day before we would leave for patrol, divers would remove the cable and lay it into the tow point before passing a line topside for us to haul the rest of it on deck. When we got outside Guam's Apra harbor, a Mike boat (a repurposed WWI landing craft) with the array on a reel would come alongside and we would pass the stub cable over to them. They connected it to the array and reduced speed to trail the array behind us away from the screw, far enough away to prevent fouling.

When we left Pearl Harbor for the final time to transit to the West coast for eventual de-activation (Oct '79) we prepared to pull the stub cable topside. The diver left too much slack in the cable and when we spun the shaft (the shaft seals are tightened import and loosened when underway, so the shaft has to rotate occasionally to maintain the seal) the Fickle Finger of Fate intervened. Anyway, the second pic of me displaying the result is priceless. Our CO was always a screamer, known for his epic meltdowns, and this initiated yet another. For us, it was just one less piece of equipment to monitor as we headed to San Diego. He blamed us for the diver's mistake and made our lives (extra) hellish for the entire transit.

The array was from the BQR-15, which in later boats was equipped with an onboard storage and handling system. For the 598's, the channel amplifier was the BQR-25, and the display processor was the BQR-23. I think there were something like 20 beamformed, waterfall narrowband channels to monitor and only four could be displayed on the screen at once. The Sonar Supervisor (sitting in the back of the shack) would rotate a dial and the channels would cycle on and off the screen the screen. During operation, it was sensitive enough to pick up the turbine signatures of high-flying commercial aircraft for short periods of time. The CO hated to be underway without it.

San Diego-based, Spectral Dynamics built the BQR-23, based on their proven BQR-20, 20A, and 22 series spectrum analyzers. They all stood about five feet high and were divided into function-specific rack-mounted, slide-out units. None were light. Unit 4 was the monitor - an 18" monochrome green screen CRT. We had one fail on a Seawolf mission with no spares. The BQR-22 was a dual-channel spectrum analyzer that we relied on to analyze our primary sonar acoustic data. One of the spooks heard about our problems and brought us a dual-channel spectrum analyzer that fit in the cavity unit 4 occupied. Not only was it small, it had more capability! They got the money for fancy equipment and we didn't.

[maccrage]

Ouch.

[Pappy]

So, then I will scratch those endplates myself, documentation on the Franklin class was passed in this thread earlier on.

Here some pics in the raw form, so you can see well what I did. Still some sanding to be done when all cement is dry.

It was necessary to modify the aft diving planes to a great extend, as these appeared incorrect in the first place. Also for any of the 609 or 616 boats that is. The only difference is the wider section where the endplates are based on. Some homework to do on my Lafayette and Ethan Allen models!

IMAG1777cr.jpg

IMAG1778cr.jpg

IMAG1779cr.jpg

G'day All,

I have the Mikro Mir 1/350 USS Kamehameha kit with the twin Dry Deck Shelters (DDS).

I want to correct the aft control surfaces. I have read through this thread and if I understand correctly, the USS Kamehameha was a Ben Franklin (640) class so it should also have the end plates. My question is, what would the dimensions of the endplates be in 1/350? Martin's excellent work has shown how to correct the missing end-plates, but does not include their dimensions,

cheers,

Pappy

[Vepr157]

Here are some drawings that might help. To give you some dimensions to scale these drawings, the distance between the main axis and the baseline in the profile view is 16'6" and the total breadth of the stern planes is 40'4".




Jacob

[Pappy]

G'day again,

I am getting to the paointing stage for my USS Kamehameha (BF Class) and I have doubts about the painting guide in the Mikro Mir instructions. The red oxide demarcation is depicted as halfway up the hull sides and level with the aft horizontal dive planes, but images in this thread show that the red oxide was extended higher up the hull sides, basically level with the top of the bottom section of the upper rudder if that makes sense?

Secondly, what colour should the screw be? I am thinking a goldish colour but short of brass

cheers,

Pappy

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

G'day again,

I am getting to the paointing stage for my USS Kamehameha (BF Class) and I have doubts about the painting guide in the Mikro Mir instructions. The red oxide demarcation is depicted as halfway up the hull sides and level with the aft horizontal dive planes, but images in this thread show that the red oxide was extended higher up the hull sides, basically level with the top of the bottom section of the upper rudder if that makes sense?

Secondly, what colour should the screw be? I am thinking a goldish colour but short of brass

cheers,

Pappy

Hi Pappy,

Maybe take good look at the previous post of Vepr: note that the waterline is at the 29 ft mark on the vertical rudder. That's the top of the boot topping or the dark grey band. The boot topping itself is six feet high at most, so the top of the anti fouling (what you like to call oxide red which it isn't) is at the 23 feet mark on the rudder. That's still above the end plates on the dive planes.
Next thing: take another close look at the water line: it's not parallel to the axis of the cylindrical hull, but running lower to the right of the image. Meaning: the hull is not horizontal in the water, but lying deeper at the stern then at the bow. So to be accurate you have to look also at bow pictures, and note that the waterline lies lower on the hull sides then at the stern!

[Vepr157]

G'day again,

I am getting to the paointing stage for my USS Kamehameha (BF Class) and I have doubts about the painting guide in the Mikro Mir instructions. The red oxide demarcation is depicted as halfway up the hull sides and level with the aft horizontal dive planes, but images in this thread show that the red oxide was extended higher up the hull sides, basically level with the top of the bottom section of the upper rudder if that makes sense?

Secondly, what colour should the screw be? I am thinking a goldish colour but short of brass

cheers,

Pappy

It depends how you want to depict the submarine. If you want to depict her in active service, the red antifouling paint goes halfway up the side, level with the main axis of the hull (thus level with the stern stabilizers/planes), like you described. Red paint only extended up to the waterline when the submarine was launched (some subs were launched this way, some weren't). Sometimes after an overhaul, the area between the waterline and the red paint on the lower half of the hull was painted with a mixture of black and red antifouling paint, which is sort of a dark maroon. See this photo of the Barbel:

http://navsource.org/archives/08/580/0858009.jpg

But if you're going to be depicting her in active service, the bottom half should be red and the top half should be black. I also like to make the areas on the bow where there are an acoustic windows for sonar a lighter shade than the main hull colors, but that's up to your personal preference.

As for the propeller, it was made of manganese bronze, which tarnishes to a dull yellowy-orange metallic color. But if it's fresh a brass or gold-colored paint would do just fine.

Jacob

[Pappy]

G'dsy Maartin and Justin,

Thanks very much for the great info. I am definitely going for an in service look and will be using the demarcation as suggested by Justin but i like the idea of a purple-ish boot topping. Incidentally, what would you reccomend for the red colur, it is a little closer to orange than a deep red and alittle hard to nail down?

cheers,

Pappy

[Vepr157]

I typically use a mixture of bright red with bit of rust or brown. When the red antifouling is freshly applied, it's intensely red, but over time it gets toned down to a slightly darker and browner color.

Jacob

[Pappy]

I typically use a mixture of bright red with bit of rust or brown. When the red antifouling is freshly applied, it's intensely red, but over time it gets toned down to a slightly darker and browner color.

Jacob

G'day Jacob,

Thanks very much,

cheers,

Pappy

[Jcholman]

So in doing some research on the George Washington class SSBN's, I noticed that for a time, they carried "fin like projections on top and beside their missile decks. I assume that these are some form of passive sonar as they resemble smaller versions of the PUFFS arrays present on Guppy III and Tullabee. Any knowledge out there on exactly what these are?

USS George Washington: http://navsource.org/archives/08/600/0859832.jpg, http://navsource.org/archives/08/600/0859844.jpg, and http://navsource.org/archives/08/600/0859845b.jpg (November 1960, gone by June 1962)

USS Patrick Henry: http://navsource.org/archives/08/600/0859929.jpg and http://navsource.org/archives/08/600/0859913.jpg (1960-1961)

Thanks!

John