Calling all King George V-class (WWII) fans

[pascalemod]

pascalemod, is asking about POW not KG V.

Yeah. But that pic of her with paravane chains hanging down the bow after speed trials, it is pretty obvious she had the paravanes installed.

I think the confusion about it is just due to the fact that the wreck of Prince of Wales doesn't have the paravane boot.

Then there is a matter of cabling around the aft turret Barbette. Did POW really have some cables running outside of the aft quad turret? Flyhawk 1/700 kit says must install.

[Guest]

Despite the argument to the contrary in subsequent posts, the information in EJFoeth's (EJF) of 26 July 5.09am must be taken as very persuasive of HMS PRINCE of WALES having a forefoot clump and thus the paravane equipment fitted during the action in the Denmark Strait in May 1941.

Although EJF did not provide any more information regarding the date of his material other than stating "April 1941," one can, by Googling "HMS Prince of Wales battleship," bring up a number of images with a date to them (20 April) that do fit the ship's known appearance at the time. These clearly show the bow chains for the paravane system. However, a purist might wish to take the matter further by examining the ship's logs for March/April of 1941 (probably in the English National Archives at Kew) or the Ships' Cover for the KGV class (held in by the National Maritime Museum) for any information that might indicate the precise date that the clump and paravane gear were fitted.

Therefore I would complete the kit with the forefoot clump fitted and run the (unlikely) risk of meeting someone with personal knowledge (and able to verify it), disagreeing with me. If my view is accepted however, pascalemod is now confronted with the matter of modeling the paravane rig!!! It was there, so it should, if possible, be replicated: I've done it at a scale of 1:192 but it may take a bit of thinking at the scale of pascalemod's model. The information is "out there" (See the Admiralty Manual of Seamanship Volume II of 1932) but one does need to note that contrary to what is inferred in EJF's later post of 2.07pm 26 July, the chains were not attached to the clump, they were rove through it.

Digressing: another type of paravane rig for the KGV class may have been intended, or what was actually fitted may have only been intended to be fitted on going to war: other British capital ships went right through the inter-war years with their paravane gear fitted. Be that as it may, I see no reason why ships of the KGV Class could not have been launched with a clump fitted to the forefoot: it should not have presented much of a problem to any British ship-builder worth their salt and the forefoot should have been well clear of any ground when the cradle supporting the forward part of the hull came off the slipway thus permitting the ship to take up its calculated draft.

[EJFoeth]

Then there is a matter of cabling around the aft turret Barbette. Did POW really have some cables running outside of the aft quad turret? Flyhawk 1/700 kit says must install.

Yes.

Mysteryguest is Peter B.?

[Guest]

Re: Pascalemod's Post of 3.33am 28 July concerning the matter of "cabling" around the after barbette.

Fit it! If I take the item you mean as what I see it as being: it is actually wire rope. It is part of the gear that would have been used for towing another ship.

Concerning further construction: you may wish to consider Googling "HMS Prince of Wales battleship." There is a wealth of onboard photographs that may help to clear up any uncertainties that may arise in your mind from the instructions for construction of your model.

For EJFoeth:

I owe you an apology for doubting leaving the forefoot clump off the hull before launching. A brief conversation with a retired naval architect friend subsequent to my last post elicited the information that despite every calculation, variances in tidal level on the day of launch could well lead to the danger of the forefoot striking the ground on launch.

[pascalemod]

Re: Pascalemod's Post of 3.33am 28 July concerning the matter of "cabling" around the after barbette.

Fit it! If I take the item you mean as what I see it as being: it is actually wire rope. It is part of the gear that would have been used for towing another ship.

Concerning further construction: you may wish to consider Googling "HMS Prince of Wales battleship." There is a wealth of onboard photographs that may help to clear up any uncertainties that may arise in your mind from the instructions for construction of your model.

For EJFoeth:

I owe you an apology for doubting leaving the forefoot clump off the hull before launching. A brief conversation with a retired naval architect friend subsequent to my last post elicited the information that despite every calculation, variances in tidal level on the day of launch could well lead to the danger of the forefoot striking the ground on launch.

The fact that the cabling around barbette of aft quad turret are used for towing is illuminating in itself for me. thank you! (meaning I wont install it on the bow barbette, despite the fact that Flyhawk provides cables for both forward and aft turrets!. )

[Aop Aur]

Hello guys!

It's been over a year now since I was last online! Time really flies!

Anyway, I've got a question regarding the KGV's 14" gun turrets....

I'm currently 3D modelling the Lion class's 16" gun design using photos of the KGVs' main guns as a reference, most of them from IWM's online archive. The images show the rangefinder hoods on both sides of the turret with a sliding opening, which I assume is to be slid open when the rangefinders are in use (correct me if I'm wrong). Now, I wanted to model these opened to show the rangefinder details, but most of the photos show them otherwise...

So far, these two are my best finds on the particular area:





Any idea what they might look like?

Helps and suggestions will be much appreciated!

Aop

[Guest]

Aop Aur,

You have deduced that the rangefinder hoods had a sliding opening: I would agree. That would only have been done on "closing up" in anticipation of a surface action, for practice or maintenance.

I've always understood that the prime contractors for rangefinders to the Royal Navy were Messrs Barr and Stroud. I suggest that you try to locate their archives and approach them for details of the rangefinder that they would have produced.

I was rather interested in the upper picture, primarily wondering who the group of people were. However, there is a more amusing feature inside the rangefinder hood. I couldn't magnify the image to get a better look but it has all the appearance of a 5 gallon galvanized "Pusser's" bucket used to contain water; which is definitely not a "fitting." Clearly the turret "sweeper" was up to something. It did give me a smile though. Thank you.

[Aop Aur]

Thanks for the information! I'll see about contacting them regarding the type of rangefinders used.

I was rather interested in the upper picture, primarily wondering who the group of people were. However, there is a more amusing feature inside the rangefinder hood. I couldn't magnify the image to get a better look but it has all the appearance of a 5 gallon galvanized "Pusser's" bucket used to contain water; which is definitely not a "fitting." Clearly the turret "sweeper" was up to something. It did give me a smile though. Thank you.

That photo was taken on board KGV when she took Lord and Lady Halifax to America in January 1941. Description on IWM's website:
Group of notables on the quarterdeck during the voyage. Left to right: Back row: Mr Taylor, Canadian; Major General F G Beaumont-Nesbitt, Military Attache to Embassy; Pay Commander Colonel Woodward, Canadian; Mr C Peake, Press Adviser; The Commander; Admiral Dankwerts; General Morris; Lieut Col Cornwall-Jones; Engineer Commander. Front: Admiral Bellaires; Mr Howe; Lady Halifax; The Captain; Lord Halifax; Admiral Ghormley; Brig General R E Lee.

Thanks for pointing out the water bucket, otherwise I might have designed a bucket-shaped rangefinder on my 3D model! Doesn't really make sense for them to put it there though...

Anyway, if anyone knows of even better photographs, please do post them here!

Aop

[Guest]

Aop Aur,

Thank you for the reply. Your details of the composition of the group have save me some work as a result. I can think of several good reasons as to why the water bucket was left where it is but will leave things there less I annoy the Moderator with unnecessary trivia. Good fortune in your hunt for the information wanted.

[pascalemod]

Either I found an error in FH kit or Prince of Wales carried some other plane's wings inside its hangar!

See pic attached.

I dry fit the Walrus wings into the hangar wall like on picture and - they stick out. So it means either hangar depth is too shallow, or wings on the wall are not from Walrus! Which one is it guys, do you know? What is happening here?

[EJFoeth]

Have you noticed that a Walrus can fold its wings?

[pascalemod]

Have you noticed that a Walrus can fold its wings?

Of course I knew that, but I didnt connect the idea that what Im seeing is HALF of the wing on the walls. So probably 4 pieces hanging on the walls inside of each hangar as spares. Probably considering the planes were supposed to be 4 but ended up as 2, there is ample storage anyway. Well this really clears it up. Back to modelling!

Thank you EJ!

[EJFoeth]

[Martocticvs]

Does anyone know the purpose of the four vertical 'posts' that seem to hang from a track just above the hangar doors? Are they some kind of heavy weather protection, holding an extra screen that could be pulled across in front of the doors?

[Guest]

Martocticvs,

Do you have a picture available? I can't see the object of your enquiry in any on the matter currently available. Thank you.

[Martocticvs]

They're quite prominent in the photo above - they partially obscure the grilles in the bulkhead between the two hangar doors.

[Guest]

Martocticvs,

Thank you. I now see what you mean but regret that I cannot help you. However, they seem to be some form of (fairly heavy) "spare" something like connecting rods; which are secured to the screen (wall) with holding plates. I doubt if they are associated with the hangar doors: possible catapult "spares?"

I hope someone else can help.

[Martocticvs]

I vaguely remembered a photo I'd seen where they are pulled across - and I have found it!

ON BOARD HMS KING GEORGE V WHEN SHE TOOK LORD AND LADY HALIFAX TO AMERICA IN JANUARY 1941.. � IWM (A 2871) IWM Non Commercial License

Not quite clear to me how they moved as they would have to be manoeuvred past the rails. Not really clear what their function is though.

[EJFoeth]

I wondered why I missed this image but apparently the IWM has uploaded more footage... good find.

[Guest]

Good one! Well done Martocticvs! I have seen a photograph of the stretcher party negotiating the walk-way over the catapult before but it now appears to have been "cropped" from a larger image.

However, the vertical "bars" do indeed seem to be items intended to provide support for the hangar doors. They were no doubt, necessary.