Calling all IJN Kuma-class (球磨), Nagara-class (長良) & Sendai-class (川内) fans

[Dan K]

I was referring to the position you marked in green in the last photo, Kevin.

I can check my L&W copy tonight to see if there's something I missed.

[KevinD]

Thanks for clarification on that Dan!

However, as a further clarification, seems this photo posted above by 'ussvf17' is not Tenryu, or even Tenryu Class, so not much good for comparisons sake to Tenryu herself.

As Ed 'over there' pointed out, note the two gun mounts forward (as opposed to one on Tenryu).

[KevinD]

I was referring to the position you marked in green in the last photo, Kevin.

So these two 'objects' then Dan?

[maxim]

However, as a further clarification, seems this photo posted above by 'ussvf17' is not Tenryu, or even Tenryu Class, so not much good for comparisons sake to Tenryu herself.

As Ed 'over there' pointed out, note the two gun mounts forward (as opposed to one on Tenryu).

This is clearly a Kuma class cruiser. The hull was also very different, see e.g. the forward well (?) for the torpedo tubes.

[KevinD]

This is clearly a Kuma class cruiser. The hull was also very different, see e.g. the forward well (?) for the torpedo tubes.

As I said above, certainly not Tenryu / Tenryu Class. And I would tentatively agree a Kuma Class. But 'clearly'(?)...........what makes the TT area / 'well' different from the Nagara Class?

Top photos are - as far as I know either Kuma herself, or - a Kuma Class ship.

Bottom photos are Yura, a Nagara Class ship.

[maxim]

The bridge is the obvious difference between the Kuma and Nagara class.

[KevinD]

The bridge is the obvious difference between the Kuma and Nagara class.

Realise the bridges differentiated as they got 'older', but does that hold true right from their 'as built' early construction also?

[maxim]

Kiso (Kuma class) and all cruisers of the Nagara and Sendai class were built with a much larger bridge structure, which included an aircraft hangar. These ships were originally equipped with a small starting deck in front of the bridge above the forward 14 cm guns. Most of these ships, never used that starting deck and probably the hangar never housed any aircraft. But they kept the basic bridge structure. The bridges were only modified to include new directors, the bridge was closed etc.

The bridge of Kiso looked always very different, both from her sister ships and the ships of the later classes.

Therefore, the Kuma class cruiser is either Kuma, Tama, Kitakami or Oi. I have not tried to identify her - it was anyway not the topic, only a photo of the wrong class, but a class equipped with the same Type 13 director.

[Dan K]

There's nothing in L&W on that foremast arrangement

Kiso (Kuma class) and all cruisers of the Nagara and Sendai class were built with a much larger bridge structure, which included an aircraft hangar.

Agreed.

[katobase]

Sorry i forgot i didn't log in for that post!

I have enlarged the 'guest' photo in which he circled the 'object', and it seems(?) he either means the structure in front of the mast (red arrow middle pic) with white covers / awning around the 'windows', or the smaller object/s underneath that structure (in his original pic) on the mast itself (now 'boxed in' in green in crop from one of his other photos at bottom here.)
Guess we will have to wait to see what the guest has to say?

Which part do you mean? The small items in front of the mast? Or the large platform with the white canvas cover on the top of the mast (where the spar of the foremasts is fixed)?
Lacroix-Wells mentions there only the Type 13 director, which is probably behind the canvas. It the director to guide the 14 cm guns.

I did some search, it seems the type 13 director is inside the lookout station, in the end, i concluded it's a signal light with some weird piping that goes into the lookout. I tried to make a 3D model of it and i think it's the best fit for now... Now that i look at it i doubt i could even model that in 1/700 hahaha

[jlow]

I posted the following two responses at the J-aircraft board on August 15 and 16 but it never made it to this forum:

�I have looked and this features shows up later in both ships but no real clear photo. Considering it was in the 30s, it's not going to be anything high tech, but this close-up seems to show the glass-like feature of a light. Interestingly it goes away during the war which also makes sense..."

Most likely a white mast head navigational light which shines only forward. A standard navigational setup

�I personally don't think it is all light. The lower part is no doubt in my mind a light, but the upper part is not light. If you take a closer look, I think the upper part is attached to the bottom of the platform and the lower part is like a crow's feet that is grasping the small platform so probably an added support for that position.

One possibility is the position started out as a lookout platform, but then decided to add the Type 13 director and the platform was too flimsy so they had to add the support.

No way to be sure one way or another.�

[KevinD]

�I personally don't think it is all light. The lower part is no doubt in my mind a light, but the upper part is not light.

So are inferring that the light, if there is a light, is not where it has been placed in the above 3D rendition (i.e. directly in front of the circular director enclosure)?'

As for your 'other' posts not appearing here, I can only assume that you either id not enter/upload them 'correctly' (so to speak) here, or if you did then there is a glitch of some sort.

[jlow]

If you look at the items in question, there are two small platforms. I think the cyclinder sitting on the lower platform is a light. As for the possibility of a light �directly in front of the circular director enclosure�, it is possible that there is another light there. For example, look at the bridge structure of larger better illustrated ships like TAKAO & FUSO in books by Skulski, there are multiple lights at the front of the superstructure, some of those are �towing lights� others are �signaling lights�, so multiple lights is possible on IJN warships in this area.

The information from my other post on J-aircraft was not passed on to here. I did not post it here until today so there was no glitch.

[Mike W]

Is there any dedicated etch for the Tamiya 1/700 Kinu? I've been looking and not found any yet.

[Mike W]

Also, is there no section in here for Jintsu, Naka and Sendai?

[Mike W]

I have a few questions about impending IJN light Cruiser builds.

Jintsu (Aoshima newish kit) - When did Jintsu get a degaussing cable fitted? The kit depicts her in 42, I believe prior to her late 42 refit.

Sendai (Aoshima newish kit) - The kit says it depicts Sendai in 1943 with a radar antenna on top of the bridge but the light AA is still only a pair of twin 25mm guns and some 13mm guns at the bridge front - is this right for 1943?

Nagara (Tamiya with Rainbow etch) - The kit depicts the ship in 1944 when she lost 2 single 5.5's and had a twin 5 inch fitted. The light AA in the kit is 8 twin 25mm guns amidships and two triple 25mm guns aft. Then it has 6 single guns around the funnels and another 2 singles in front of the bridge - are the single guns supposed to be 13 or 25mm guns?

thanks
Mike

[Dan K]

I've modified the title to include the Sendai class.

I'm away from home and my references, so it may be several days before I can answer any questions. Others should certainly chime in.

Almost every IJN warship received her degaussing cable sometime in the last 6 months of 1941.Some DDs gained theirs later.

[Mike W]

Thanks Dan, I look forward to receiving your knowledge!

thanks
Mike

[Dan K]

The L&W book will probably give a more authoritative answer, but in the meantime:

From Sendai's TROM

21 January 1943:
Two 25 mm guns removed from oiler SANYO MARU are transferred to SENDAI.

5 May 1943:
At Sasebo for repairs and refit. A Type 21 radar is installed. The No. five 5.5-inch gun mount is removed. Two triple 25-mm AA gun mounts are installed.


From Nagara's TROM:

26 January 1944:
Arrives at Maizuru. Refit. NAGARA's No. 7 140-mm gun mount is removed and replaced by a 127-mm unshielded HA gun mount. The fore and aft twin torpedo tubes are removed and replaced by two quadruple tube mounts aft. The catapult is removed and replaced by two triple-mount Type 96 25-mm AA gun mounts bringing NAGARA's total 25-mm AA suite to 22 barrels (2x3, 6x2, 4x1). DC rails are installed in the stern and a Type 93 hydrophone set is fitted in the bow.

2 July 1944:
Arrives at Yokosuka. Begins refit. Ten single mount Type 96 25-mm AA guns are installed, bringing NAGARA's 25-mm suite to 32 barrels (2x3, 6x2, 14x1). A Type 22 surface-search radar is fitted.

[Mike W]

thanks Dan, so 25mm singles in between Nagara's funnels then.

As for Sendai, the kit is confused then! I've spotted there should be 2 single 25mm guns in addition to the twins, so that's right for Jan-May 43 but the instructions tell you to add the radar but not the extra triple 25mm guns, so I think the easiest thing is to leave off the radar antenna. I've got the Five Star etch for the kit and that doesn't have the extra triple 25mm either.

Another question has popped up. I'm working on Tamiya's Kinu kit and there's no representation of linoleum on the well behind the bridge or the aft deck where the 3 aft 5.5 in guns, catapult and main mast live. Should these two areas have lino coverings?

thanks
Mike