1/144 Jorge Juan (ex USS McGowan)

[Willie]

Hi there all again,

And thanks Meister Baumann and Marijn for your high notes to my work. I am a teacher and I appreciate it...

It was pretty common for destroyers to be involved in collisions with carriers or resupply ships (normally during resupply ops when a sudden wave could push them together) or with other destroyers during maneuvers.

Absolutely right, and there have been some examples in my neighborhood too. This is Gravina D62, one of the Gearings in our Navy, after coming to close terms with some other unit. An extreme example of canning on the left and of a lousy paint job on the right. Maybe somebody was taking extreme measures to mend it without the use of paint.

I think it is a good idea to have less below the waterline, and none on the flat area near the stern. The contrast with the heavily oil-canned areas will make those look more realistic; otherwise the hull surface would look too uniform.

IMO, yes and no. There is no definite oil canning pattern in the flat bottom in the stern, or in the bottom in general, but after 40+ years at sea, it is impossible that there is not something somewhere, with the sea pressure and the regular dockings. Actually, there are shadows that can be observed, quite irregularly, here and there in the few dry dock pictures available.

On the other hand, I didn�t want to leave the hull beaten in some places, and in pristine condition in others, so I have tried to reproduce some of these scars in the lower hull.

I have made the carving irregularly, following no definite pattern, in different positions and in different shapes, refining the areas with different sandpapers, until what can be seen is a kind of bumps or shadows, and only against the light, that is more or less what can be observed in the real pictures.

This is what I have done:

I have done the same thing in the midship area, as a transition between bows and stern:

The thing is not easy to see, so I am not sure if it was necessary at all, but at least I have the feeling of having a more complete hull.

I hope you like it, and very best regards from the North Atlantic,

Willie.[/size]

[BB62vet]

Willie,
It looks just like a real FLETCHER after years at sea! Excellent work, Amigo!!!

Hank

[Willie]

Hi all, folks.

Thanks Hank for your very rewarding remark. If a Fletcher veteran recognizes a Fletcher, the thing is definitely aceptable.

On the other hand, I have found this picture in my files on USS The Sullivans, that proves two different things :
(a) That these plates can cope with a serious punishment, and survive.
(b) That God does exist and he knows me, because I am not building The Sullivans but Jorge Juan, who did not go through this kind of incident, AFAIK, and I will be saving lots of research and work on this specific example of oil canning.

I am afraid I am not done with the canning yet, and that some more work will be necessary, but for the moment I will replace oil canning by canned beer, in between I decide what to do next.

Nice going and warmest regards from this side,

Willie.[/size]

[Sparrow]

Outstanding example of patience, perseverance and love for a work well done, as always.
This thread, along with others should be teached at High Schools as an inspiring example.

Well done!

Me tienes embobao. �Abrazo grande!

[Willie]

All hands ahoy !!!!!
Captain Sparrow is back on board !!!!!
Glad to see you back in the forum, my friend, and hopefully you have come to stay.

All the best from this side,

Willie.

[Willie]

Hi all again,

I have been discussing recently with Hank Strub about the deck rings of the 5"/38 gun bases. Hank wants to detete them completely, and replace them, and I was more prone to use the kit offer and complete it. The more you remove from your kit, the more problems you will have to replace it, and I am always afraid of making a carnage for nothing.
After this discussion I had a first go and tried to find out how it would be to build the elements upwards before removing anything from deck downwards.

Well, this is what you get in the box:

Even if not 100% perfect, these rings have the correct diameter and can be used, but the problem is that they are incomplete all the same, as they are only the first ring, and lack half of the elements upwards just below the gun mount. As a result of this, the gun mounts are too low on deck, while it is clear in every picture of this mount system, that they were just the opposite, i.e., quite high.
This is what has to be made, on Jorge Juan herself, and notice how high the mounts are:

Going into further detail, the deck ring has twelve brackets (to call them so), and the upper one just double, twenty-four, as it can be deduced from these pictures:

I did the eight basic pieces using as a reference the base elements offered in the Revell kit, using the 0.5 mm. base of four yogurt containers for my lower ring, and 1.00 mm. Evergreen plate for the upper one. I used a 1 cent coin to draw the rings, refined the borders with a pair of scissors and some rough sandpaper, and finished the job nailing the roundels on the tip of a file and rolling them in some much finer sandpaper again.

I let it dry for a ful day, and emptied all four elements, to fit perfectly around the axis of the gun mounts, so that they cannot move when set in place, completing them with 1.00x04.00 mm. Evergreen strips, and refining with sandpaper:

The guns are now 1.5 mm. higher, what seems way more realistic than before. It was not difficult at all to make:

Even if not perfect, this solution suits me much better than removing everything, specially if I had to adapt the shape of the fore guns rings to the shape of the deck, so that the guns remain even.

Nice going from this corner of the North Atlantic,

Willie.[/size]

[BB62vet]

Willie,
I won't duplicate my reply - I answered your latest post on my build just a few moments ago. I think we both saw the need to alter the kit base rings as they were incorrect. So, we're basically both on the same page here!

You've done a wonderful job to date - always enjoy your progress!!!

Hank

[Kubilay]

Outstanding work. I am watching it like a movie, so I'd better refill the popcorn.

Kubilay.

[ModelMonkey]

�Magn�fica!

[Willie]

Hi there, folks,

Thanks a lot for your messages and always kind remarks.

I would like to finish the aft stack, and to solve the problem of the wiring up it, from main deck to the domes and aerials, but I thought that, as this is going to be something a bit delicate, it would be advisable to finish the rest of the elements first, so I have started the details on the torpedo director platform.

This is what has to be finished on board Jorge Juan :

The picture is useful, but not very clear, but a quick comparison of USS MacGowan shows that this platform did not change from her service years in the US Navy :

The inner part is clearly displayed in this other picture (Hank will love it) of USS Stoddard:

So, with everything more or less clear, I have started the main element, using a scrap of 6.3x0.5mm. Evergreen strip, opening the holes with drills and files, and finishing it with 2.0x0.25mm. Evergreen strip and some other styrene scraps. Again very easy to do. This is the state of the element at the moment:

The macro pictures leave no margin for mistakes, that will have to be refined. I will let it dry completely, and will imagine tomorrow how to finish the handrails.

Warmest regards from this side,

Willie.[/size]

[BB62vet]

Willie,

Glad to have helped you out photo-wise with the stack!!! I won't have to make that as it was removed from STODDARD probably in the late '50s - it was gone when I arrived aboard in 06/66. You torpedo director's platform is beginning to look ship-shape!!

Hank

[Willie]

Hi there again folks,

Well Hank, if...

I won't have to make that as it was removed from STODDARD probably in the late '50s - it was gone when I arrived aboard in 06/66.

...You don�t know how lucky you are. This piece is a bit of a nightmare to build.

After yesterday�s element, I carried on with the rest of the platform. First I made the handrails. To start with, I was not able to make the elements one by one, so that vertical and horizontal bars were at the same level, as the real case was, so I had to go for the upper element in one single curve, and the lower one in two pieces, using 0.64 mm. Evergreen rod. It should have been 0.50, but I thought it wiser to make the thing in 0.64 to give it a bit more stability, just in case I messed up --what did not happen.

To make the curves of the three elements identical, or virtually identical, and keep them so after setting them in position took its time. Unnecessary to say, the lower right section of the railing interfered with the vertical cylinder of the rear plate, something I could not foresee, and I had to remove the thing when it was already set in place and completely dry, and redo the element. Double work, double joy. Here is the first step:

There were many variations in this director platform in both equipment and its placing, and the shape of the handrailings. The specific problem with the upper handrail in Jorge Juan is that it was again split in two sections attached to the top of the rear plate, with the ends going downward at a very steep angle. This is what I mean, both pics being of the same ship, Jorge Juan / Macgowan:

I more or less solved the problem adding two sections of rod to the sides of the plate, gluing them to the upper circle, and cutting the middle section afterwards. This is the result:

As for the rest, it was nothing at all, everything made with scraps of styrene and sprue.

Without macro, and with without the merciless flash, the thing looks much better:

Once this is done, I hope the rest of the stack will not be that difficult.

Warmest regards from the North Atlantic,

Willie. [/size]

[BB62vet]

Willie,

Well, regardless - your efforts are paying off, this really looks 1st rate!!! IMHO, I think that the McGowan's director's platform was probably a shipyard deviation from a general set of builder's plans - In many cases small differences such as this one were due to local shipyard issues: lack of materials, need to save time/materials, improper location of equipment resulting in modifications to effected areas - which is what I guess happened here. The control box was located below the upper rail, thus making alterations of the rail necessary.

In any event, you've met the challenge well indeed!!

Hank

[marijn van gils]

Great work Willie, as always!

Also great job on the rest of the hull. The details are beautiful, and the light irregularities of the surface look better and more realistic than a completely flat surface would have.

[Willie]

Hi there Hank, Marijn and all,

Thanks for your encouraging remarks.

(...) The light irregularities of the surface look better and more realistic than a completely flat surface would have.

Actually, this was the intention, as much detail fore and aft and nothing in the middle would have been weird.

And further abusing your expertise, would somebody know what is this ???

TIA, and very best regards again,

Willie.[/size]

[Rick E Davis]

I can't be sure, but I suspect it is a bracket for wiring in conduits. Note that the whip antenna is "attached" to the middle conduit.

[BB62vet]

Willie,

I would tend to agree with R. E. Davis on this. After looking through 15 or so FLETCHER class DD's that still retained the after stack Torpedo Director's Platform, I could not find any that had the same type of cable run that your photos shows. This leads me to believe that this was a shipyard alteration to provide a cable tray for communications and elec. cables.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[Rick E Davis]

I looked through quite a few images of FLETCHERS that had the torpedo director relocated to the aft stack to see if I could find additional views of this configuration. After looking through about 50 of them, I found only one other FLETCHER with a "similar" placement of conduits but that one had them continue going around to the front of the stack. I started the search because I was interested if these conduits were on both sides of the stack or just the starboard side. I didn't have any close-in views of McGOWAN's portside in this area.

A couple of interesting observations that I noted while going through these photos, was that even though the whip antennas were located in about the same places on the aft stacks, the leads to them really varied as to how they were run up to the antennas. Hard to tell if the changes were due to yards figuring out how to get the leads to where they needed to go on their own or if the installation methods/instructions evolved over time, particularly as the RCM (ECM) suites changed. Another thing were the variations, as Willie already found, in the platform shape and equipment layout.

[Willie]

Hi there Mr. Davis, Hank and all,

Thanks a lot for your always precious help. I agree that there seems to be as many variations in details as shipyards and even ships.

My specific problem in the case of Jorge Juan is the lack of information. There are very few clear pictures of her while serving in the Spanish Navy.

Regarding the aft stack, this is what it looked like in 1960, when she was transferred in Barcelona :

The whip antennas seem to be 66053 TCS(P)/RVCR(S), what is consistent with the pictures of USS McGowan that have been studied.
On the other hand, at some moment later, these antennas were replaced by what seem to be 28' NT66046 or maybe 66047 --I am not familiar with this field-- as the only clear picture of Jorge Juan aft stack that I have shows clearly:

This picture also shows a new platform up the stack, as well as new wiring and a full wiring trunk on the port side. This would imply that the original wiring would also have been changed, and so the grill that I have asked about would (probably?) have been removed.

And here is the problem: from a merely esthetical point of view, I would prefer the newer 66046/47 antennas, but I would hate to have to add the new platform and dome to have them. I will have to find out if these antennas were added before or at the same time of the new platform.
You Americans cannot imagine how lucky you are literally swimming in information of the pre-digital era. It is a PROBLEM when dealing with the Spanish Navy.

As for now, and in the meanwhile, this is how my aft stack is going to remain :

Best regards from this side,

Willie.[/size]

[BB62vet]

Willie,

I tend to agree with you about your after stack arrangement. I would leave it "as is" - and build the model as of that particular time in her career.

I just emailed you 2 documents which (if they come thru - they are very large .pdf files) should give some info on the antenna systems used by USN ships during that period.

FYI - your work is really 1st Class - well done!

Hope this helps,

Hank