Calling all HMS "Mighty" Hood fans

[FW_Allen]

every photo I�ve seen showing the stanchions under the boat deck shows they were painted partially white, from maybe a foot above deck level upwards. this suggest to me the underside of the deck above might also have been painted white.

Hi Chuck,

The support pillars did indeed have centre sections which were painted white, with the bottom and top segments being hull coloured. Here�s a shot from @1933-1935:
.
From what I�ve seen in various photos, the vertical bulkheads in the area would�ve been hull coloured with a darker strip along the bottom. I believe this would also include the �enclosed� forward gun positions before they were removed, but it�s honestly difficult to tell for certain because in most photos the area is in shadow. In the few that we do have that are onboard close-ups, it was from during her time with the Mediterranean fleet...and it�s difficult to discern 507C from white in some of these old b&w photos. That or the angle is such that the bulkheads cannot be seen.

As for the deck head in this area, it�s very difficult to tell from the photos that we have�again, the clearest of these are from her Mediterranean service�it�s the old 507C vs white problem again. Fortun, I did find a shot from 1933-35 which MAY show a lighter deck head:

It�s hard to say with 100% certainty though (glare, etc).

I also have an April 1941 shot of the port side area. Of course, the exposure is such that everything looks a bit light at a time when the ship was dark. Even so, to me the deck head looks much like the vertical surfaces:


Of course, it�s difficult to tell if this was a wartime measure or standard practice. The paint experts here on the form may be able to comment on this better than I.

[FW_Allen]

Whilst going through Hood�s books (ADM 136/13), I came across numerous sheets concerning the condition of her bottom when drydocked. There are many interesting descriptions of grass along the sides, coralline, missing coatings etc. There are also details regarding what coating was applied to the bottom and the boot stripe. Looks to me like they put an undercoat with an overcoat� But I�m no paint expert so I could be wrong.

What do the paint experts make of this? See anything unexpected here or is it all pretty standard for the time period? What�s this �slate� colour they refer to? AI Grey? Why no mention of the standard red?

First, 1937:

Next, 1938:

Next, that�s right, you guessed it, 1939 and 1940:

There was one from earlier in her career where the colour was cited as �lilac� (hopefully the undercoating).

[FW_Allen]

I�ll post some close-ups that I�ve come across as well� It may take me a couple days to get to it though.

In the meantime however, here�s an interesting shot from 1940. It was taken on the port side from roughly abreast the midships searchlight platform/disinfector house/motorboat workshop (looking aft). �A� shows a dark section of deck. �B� shows teak planks. �C� shows what I believe to be Semtex or non-slip. I could of course be wrong or have it reversed (I�ve had to give up caffeine recently and I may be hallucinating LOL).

A900FAFE-26C1-4903-BEE4-31CFAFDE8DE0.jpeg (24.16 KiB) Viewed 4607 times

The only reason I�m thinking the light area is semtex is because of a reference in the ship�s books:

Of course, I could be reading this wrong (lack of coffee, well proper coffee anyway).

[EJFoeth]

Whitewood1.jpg

(Image HMS Hood website)

No, not mixed up, B is definitely wood . Anyway, the deck area around the 4"guns, also below the aft mounts in the planked area is very light in appearance. If the strip pattern continuous into the HA emplacements is very difficult to make out on most images, but it appears not in the ABC image. Semtex was troweled on, so possible over existing corticine (if present)?

HartleyPhoto3.jpg

(Image HMS Hood website)

Most fwd HA gun, no strips observed (also not in front of the splinter shield).

Hoodsheltdeck41_1.jpg

Deck near UP mount appears to have a strip pattern (1941)

Hoodsheltdeck41_2.jpg

Strip pattern visible near the deck hatch, top right in the image (faintly)? Very light deck colour. Also note deck colour at the bottom of the image, just visible above the searchlight walkway.

Hoodsheltdeck41_3.jpg

In the sunlit area a strip is clearly observed, but I'm not sure it's a shadow from the derrick post... but strips perpendicular to it are running in front of the ammo locker...

The shelterdeck spurnwater that was mentioned earlier would make a wonderful detail, but is not present in her 1940-41 configuration. I've started adding strips on the shelterdeck of my model, but I'll have to stay clear of the HA gun emplacements. I also have a copy of Newton in the mail. I recall not borrowing this volume permanently from our faculty's library (for obvious reasons)...

[dick]

Whilst going through Hood�s books (ADM 136/13), I came across numerous sheets concerning the condition of her bottom when drydocked. There are many interesting descriptions of grass along the sides, coralline, missing coatings etc. There are also details regarding what coating was applied to the bottom and the boot stripe. Looks to me like they put an undercoat with an overcoat� But I�m no paint expert so I could be wrong.

What do the paint experts make of this? See anything unexpected here or is it all pretty standard for the time period? What�s this �slate� colour they refer to? AI Grey? Why no mention of the standard red?

Frank,

This is not something I have looked at before as my interest has been the paints from the waterline upwards. However I have had a quick look at what I have from the 1937-1941 timeframe.

At that time RN ships� bottoms were painted first with anti-corrosion or �protective� coats (abbreviated to �Pro� or �Prot� in those Hood documents I think). Over these was then applied an outer anti-fouling coat. So the apparent colour of an RN ships� bottom below the boot topping would have depended on the colour of the anti-fouling paint.

At that time the Admiralty used proprietary suppliers for its ships� bottoms compositions. Peacock and Buchan�s were one of these. Their Admiralty quality anti-corrosion paint No. 1 came in black and their No. 2 in slate. Their Admiralty quality anti-fouling paint came in either black or grey. "AI" was I think a use of the Roman numeral instead of "A1" which was the brand name for P&B paint. This is how it was listed in the Admiralty Rate Book:

This raises the question as to what extent red anti-fouling paint actually was �standard� at that time. There were then 17 authorised suppliers of Admiralty quality ships� bottoms compositions. The colours of their anti-fouling coats were as follows: six supplied in grey only; seven supplied in either grey or black; one supplied in grey or green; one supplied in red or black; and two supplied in red, grey or black.

This may help explain what we see on a number of (often builders�) contemporary models in British museum collections for example:

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collectio ... 67452.html

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collectio ... 66003.html (read the description)

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collectio ... 65979.html

https://stefsap.files.wordpress.com/201 ... aldo-8.jpg

So to find out the colour of a particular ship�s bottom I guess you would have to go to the ship�s book and hunt out the D.495 forms to see what was actually used - but of course few of these ships� books survive.

Doubtless due to wartime pressures, in the autumn of 1940 the use of merchantile quality anti-fouling paint from two suppliers was authorised on lesser warships (sloops, corvettes, trawlers, AMCs, RFAs, minesweepers, tugs etc). There were seven Admiralty-authorised suppliers of these merchantile quality anti-fouling paints, all seven suppling in red but two of them in brown also. So from late 1940 onwards red may have become very much more common - but Hood was not a lesser warship. (There was also some indication that merchantile quality anti-fouling paint might in time be rolled out more widely if its use proved satisfactory.)

Best wishes,

Richard

[dick]

.... Semtex was troweled on, so possible over existing corticine (if present)?...

...

EJ,

A contemporary AFO instructs Corticene to be "replaced" with Semtex.

Contemporary letters from the Semtex company, an Admiralty document and a paper from the RNSS indicate that it was a covering for steel decks. Two of these make it very clear that it had to be laid on clean bare steel or it would fail.

I am confident that laying Semtex over Corticene was not the way it was supposed to be done.

Best wishes,

Richard

[EJFoeth]

Thank you for the addition; it indeed does not make much sense to do so but wasn't sure. Most of the probables Semtex location are devoid of deck strips (assuming corticine was indeed present but I think I've been convinced).

[chuck]

A900FAFE-26C1-4903-BEE4-31CFAFDE8DE0.jpeg

Hmmm, interesting how abrupt the transition to wooden deck is. There is not slope or Any other measure to mitigate tripping on the edges.

I am curious why the rear of the shelter deck is planked in wood but forward part is not. Considering the Hood became stern heavy During construction as a result of many modifications, to the degree that the 4 rear facing 5.5 inch guns were installed, and then removed to save weight before the ship was completed, I might expect the wooden deck planking on the rear part of the shelter deck could also be deleted to save weight. I wonder if the wooden deck there is primarily retained as sound and temperature insulation for the wardroom and officers� quarters underneath.

[EJFoeth]

Hmmm, interesting how abrupt the transition to wooden deck is. There is not slope or Any other measure to mitigate tripping on the edges.

Indeed, it's quite a step.

[FW_Allen]

Whilst going through Hood�s books (ADM 136/13), I came across numerous sheets concerning the condition of her bottom when drydocked. There are many interesting descriptions of grass along the sides, coralline, missing coatings etc. There are also details regarding what coating was applied to the bottom and the boot stripe. Looks to me like they put an undercoat with an overcoat� But I�m no paint expert so I could be wrong.

What do the paint experts make of this? See anything unexpected here or is it all pretty standard for the time period? What�s this �slate� colour they refer to? AI Grey? Why no mention of the standard red?

Frank,

This is not something I have looked at before as my interest has been the paints from the waterline upwards. However I have had a quick look at what I have from the 1937-1941 timeframe.

At that time RN ships� bottoms were painted first with anti-corrosion or �protective� coats (abbreviated to �Pro� or �Prot� in those Hood documents I think). Over these was then applied an outer anti-fouling coat. So the apparent colour of an RN ships� bottom below the boot topping would have depended on the colour of the anti-fouling paint.

At that time the Admiralty used proprietary suppliers for its ships� bottoms compositions. Peacock and Buchan�s were one of these. Their Admiralty quality anti-corrosion paint No. 1 came in black and their No. 2 in slate. Their Admiralty quality anti-fouling paint came in either black or grey. "AI" was I think a use of the Roman numeral instead of "A1" which was the brand name for P&B paint. This is how it was listed in the Admiralty Rate Book:

Peacock and Buchan's.JPG

This raises the question as to what extent red anti-fouling paint actually was �standard� at that time. There were then 17 authorised suppliers of Admiralty quality ships� bottoms compositions. The colours of their anti-fouling coats were as follows: six supplied in grey only; seven supplied in either grey or black; one supplied in grey or green; one supplied in red or black; and two supplied in red, grey or black.

This may help explain what we see on a number of (often builders�) contemporary models in British museum collections for example:

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collectio ... 67452.html

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collectio ... 66003.html (read the description)

https://collections.rmg.co.uk/collectio ... 65979.html

https://stefsap.files.wordpress.com/201 ... aldo-8.jpg

So to find out the colour of a particular ship�s bottom I guess you would have to go to the ship�s book and hunt out the D.495 forms to see what was actually used - but of course few of these ships� books survive.

Doubtless due to wartime pressures, in the autumn of 1940 the use of merchantile quality anti-fouling paint from two suppliers was authorised on lesser warships (sloops, corvettes, trawlers, AMCs, RFAs, minesweepers, tugs etc). There were seven Admiralty-authorised suppliers of these merchantile quality anti-fouling paints, all seven suppling in red but two of them in brown also. So from late 1940 onwards red may have become very much more common - but Hood was not a lesser warship. (There was also some indication that merchantile quality anti-fouling paint might in time be rolled out more widely if its use proved satisfactory.)

Best wishes,

Richard

Thanks Richard,

So, it appears that the Hood website needs to change its painting instructions again! Based on the D495s it would appear she had a grey bottom for at least a few years of her career. Unfortunately they didn�t specify colour for 39 and 40 (and there�s no record for 41...assuming of course the bottom was painted during her 41 work)..but we can likely work back for most of her career. This, combined with the possibility of corticine being present in large amounts means some major changes...

Now to get to the bottom of the �lilac� business....time to dig out the shop�s books again.

[SovereignHobbies]

I sense a tonne of work coming up, followed by more dismissive rants from the wider modelling community about how nobody could possibly know etc. Oh, and the pitchforks and chants of "rivet counter!" cannot be forgotten about either...

[FW_Allen]

I sense a tonne of work coming up, followed by more dismissive rants from the wider modelling community about how nobody could possibly know etc. Oh, and the pitchforks and chants of "rivet counter!" cannot be forgotten about either...

Yes indeed Jamie. No way to make everyone happy. We keep finding �new� things concerning Hood (or rather, �rediscovering forgotten details�). I think that�s the nature of historical model building anyways: There�s always the chance that the source material is lacking or wrong and that improved information may come to light. I think reasonable folks will understand.

For the Hood model and parts producers, however, this is great� People may want to build new models of the old girl! That, or repaint their existing models. As for me, I�m waiting for the new Flyhawk 1/700! It�s looking EXCELLENT. Wonderful people to work with too. Now I just need to worry about the painting instructions for it�

[FW_Allen]

As stated in a previous post, I�ve been going through Hood�s ships books (ADM 136/13). I�ve only been able to go through (in detail) about three volumes out of the dozen that are there but I�ve come across several docking reports which describe the hull condition and the boot topping and anti fouling measures. So far, I see more or less annual reports (with supplemental checks once or twice) ranging from July 1928 up to 1940. I have yet to come across any earlier forms nor the final form (she was dry docked in 1941 and it�s highly likely repainted yet again).

The boot topping is always listed as black (glossy black I believe). Although the manufacturer and type of coating is always listed (and it�s always Peacocks, either improved or standard), the bottom color is not always specified. In June 1933 they specify a color called �lilac.� From 1936 to 1938, the colour was grey. There is no colour specified for 1939 or 1940. We have no info for 1941 except the wreck...and the area under the stern is darkish...no red seen in any of the photos/footage I have. Since it was recently applied, I suspect it would be noticeable...the above water paint is still very much present. So, I suspect she maintained the grey colour or possibly black. This is just a guess though.

I still have tons of papers to go through, so, who knows, there may be additional information (I doubt it though).

[EJFoeth]

See, this is why I do not finish my model. This way I can at least incorporate all the latest findings....

[Gernot]

That is all darned interesting stuff! Quite amazing what exposure to a variety of information does to brain cells I found myself quite unmoved by plenty of details, but the underwater hull colour complexities are fascinating to me. I think back to painting all those Airfix kit underwater hull areas in brick red... oh how ignorance was bliss!

[Guest]

Hmmm....interesting stuff. Makes me glad my 1/200 build has been stalled for a few months, I will continue to hold off now as all this new info will be incorporated. Refards, Pete in RI

[FW_Allen]

every photo I�ve seen showing the stanchions under the boat deck shows they were painted partially white, from maybe a foot above deck level upwards. this suggest to me the underside of the deck above might also have been painted white.

Hi Chuck,

The support pillars did indeed have centre sections which were painted white, with the bottom and top segments being hull coloured. Here�s a shot from @1933-1935:
.
From what I�ve seen in various photos, the vertical bulkheads in the area would�ve been hull coloured with a darker strip along the bottom. I believe this would also include the �enclosed� forward gun positions before they were removed, but it�s honestly difficult to tell for certain because in most photos the area is in shadow. In the few that we do have that are onboard close-ups, it was from during her time with the Mediterranean fleet...and it�s difficult to discern 507C from white in some of these old b&w photos. That or the angle is such that the bulkheads cannot be seen.

As for the deck head in this area, it�s very difficult to tell from the photos that we have�again, the clearest of these are from her Mediterranean service�it�s the old 507C vs white problem again. Fortun, I did find a shot from 1933-35 which MAY show a lighter deck head:

It�s hard to say with 100% certainty though (glare, etc).

I also have an April 1941 shot of the port side area. Of course, the exposure is such that everything looks a bit light at a time when the ship was dark. Even so, to me the deck head looks much like the vertical surfaces:


Of course, it�s difficult to tell if this was a wartime measure or standard practice. The paint experts here on the form may be able to comment on this better than I.

I have found another shot on our website, this time from 1934/35: it shows the lobby near the commander�s cabin (this was on the starboard side just inboard of the small rectangular opening where the stairways reached up from the quarterdeck). As you can see, the vertical surfaces are hull coloured but the deck head is definitely white. So, perhaps the colours depended on the timeframe/state of affairs (peacetime or war)...
http://www.hmshood.com/photos/miscellaneous/lobby.jpg

[EJFoeth]

Some additional Cortic(e/i)ne images from the colour footage that Thomas Schmidt uploaded to youtube.

HMS Hood and other ships in color! - DASH.mp4_snapshot_04.29_[2020.11.09_13.03.14].jpg

Note the colour of the deck of the Admiral's signal platform, including brass strips.

HMS Hood and other ships in color! - DASH.mp4_snapshot_04.13_[2020.11.09_13.02.46].jpg

Bottom left, note the same colour on the far fwd shelterdeck.

Here is the entire movie, both shots around 4:12

[FW_Allen]

Some additional Cortic(e/i)ne images from the colour footage that Thomas Schmidt uploaded to youtube.

HMS Hood and other ships in color! - DASH.mp4_snapshot_04.29_[2020.11.09_13.03.14].jpg

Note the colour of the deck of the Admiral's signal platform, including brass strips.

HMS Hood and other ships in color! - DASH.mp4_snapshot_04.13_[2020.11.09_13.02.46].jpg

Bottom left, note the same colour on the far fwd shelterdeck.

Here is the entire movie, both shots around 4:12

Brown decks and grey bottoms! It�s a year of change for the Hood modellers!

[pascalemod]

Did I just watch most amazing british capital ship footage ever in color?! I dunno how I missed it.

I would be very happy if guys at Hood Association and Flyhawk nail this mystery and we could get some clarity on timing of underwater hull paint - as sunk, 1939s, etc - and color - black, slate grey, or red.

Reading those testimonies post Hood explosion I recall reading someone comment that Hood's hull was "black" when she sunk. And a commentary that it might have been too dark to tell, or it was just coated in oil, or discolored, or all of the above. Indeed no mention of red. So thats your slate grey anecdotal evidence.

On the other hand, Hood is photographed heading to Denmark Strait with PoW and there you see a clearly lighter grey paint below a fairly thick boot topping midships, peeking through the waves that part. So - my hunch - either grey grey, or just red as sunk, but in late 1930s pre war - evidence presented is hinting at grey of some color....

Fascinating for me, as Id love to repaint mine if this is accurately confirmed. I wont do much on cortesene as thats a bit too much. Funny, how grey deck and red bottom were may be grey bottom and red deck...

To satisfy my inner nerd I mocked up 2 versions as I would potentially build them using my own model (in 1/700). I guess something like this is how I would imagine Hood with grey and black bottoms. I tried to give it a little green discoloration and patchiness of lighter colors. But original is shown last.