Calling all USS Yorktown CV-5 fans

[John W.]

I'd say ENTERPRISE (maybe in 1944?) or maybe HORNET after Midway. YORKTOWN did not have that many 20MM along the port catwalks up to and including when she sank. Additional 20MM were added after ENT and HNT returned from Midway, but this shot looks to have too many 20MM for HORNET before she was lost. So I'd say ENTERPRISE 1944.

[Ian Roberts]

I don't agree that this is ENTERPRISE in 1944 -- the Puget Sound refit photos clearly show the Mark 14 gunsight on the Oerlikons on the starboard side mounts abeam the island (as well as all other visible installations, though the portside flight deck mounts are not included in the photograph series I have):



Perhaps ENTERPRISE before the big refit?

[Jeff Sharp]

Is it possible that this is actually CV-10 then?

[Devin]

I don't believe that's CV-5 with all of those 20mm mounts, as others have said. Also, I don't see any brown linoleum in that photo; it's overall tinged brown/sepia due to age, sure, but that's all I believe we're seeing.

[John W.]

Here are two photos worth considering:
Top picture, courtesy Navsource, is HORNET at Santa Cruz just prior to her sinking. This is the most small caliber AA with which she was fitted. Count the 20MM tubs on Port side.

Next picture, also courtesy Navsource, is ENTERPRISE, in 1944 (according to caption in Navsource) and in Dazzle. Count the 20MM tubs on the Port side. At some point a number of the single 20MM mounts were upgunned to twins. Pretty sure this photo represents the same time frame as the color close up up the thread.

[Ian Roberts]

Check out this photo of CV-6 ("released April 1943"): https://www.history.navy.mil/content/hi ... 64191.html

The amount of 20mm guns (just at a quick glance) seems to match those in the unknown photo above. In one of the other carrier threads, Rick Davis points out that the guns in the photo don't have Mark 14 gunsights OR the usual iron sights -- it makes me also wonder (like Rick) if the sights were removed for a publicity photo and this is indeed ENTERPRISE in 1944 or 1945. I was under the impression the Mark 14 gunsight required add'l equipment which was mounted in an extension below the gun shield -- if the sights themselves were removed, would this complicated extension also be removed? As I understand it, the sight itself could be easily removed for maintenance, but the supporting frame for the sight would remain on the mount. This support is not present in the photos either.

[Dick J]

Ok Yorktown fans! Get out your linoleum brown paint. She ( not positive if it is her or not) is yet another US warship that had this color on her decks even after the war started. Can anyone positively identify this shot as CV-5?

This is Enterprise. It is definitely port quarter. Yorktown herself never had that many 20MM in a single row, and neither did Hornet. Enterprise had hers broken into groups with 5 in a single block on the port quarter, a group of 2 just forward of it (with an outrigger between) and a group of 6 further forward. Post refit, there were only 2 in the group immediately forward of the hangar level quad 40MM with an obvious space between them and the block of 4 further forward, so post refit is eliminated. The individual rounded tubs for each gun rule out the Essex class.

[Jeff Sharp]

Thanks Dick. What year would this be then?

[Dick J]

The photo is definitely post Eastern Solomons, since some of these 20MM were added at Pearl just before Santa Cruz. The AA fit was essentially unchanged until her big refit, so Oct '42 to July '43. The photo appears to be yellowed and otherwise color shifted, so it would be interesting to know what the original colors actually were.

[Jeff Sharp]

Thanks Dick! That is a huge help. That decking is definitely a different color than the painted metal parts on the flight deck so the color may not be that far off.

[TF17Greg]

Thank you all for your help....and pictures...
There are still a lot of questions... but I'm sure I'll find the answers with your help.

l'm still awaiting for extra stuff...

[alexander47]

Good Morning
Does anyone around here know the colors of the hull of A.C. USS Yorktown CV-5 1942?
Thanks

[blw]

Have a look here: https://www.shipcamouflage.com/usn_cv.htm

[Dick J]

Yorktown was painted in MS-12 before navy blue was substituted for the sea blue. Early photos suggest she had the standard colors of sea blue up to the hangar level, ocean gray from there up to the top of the stack, and haze gray from that point up. However most, if not all, photos of her taken in the Pacific suggest that the haze gray had been covered by ocean gray. So in 1942, she would have been sea blue (5-S) up to the hangar deck and ocean gray (5-O) above that line.

[CLASSIC WARSHIPS]

I published a book on CV-5 a few years ago in my Warship Pictorial Series.

My website address : http://www.classicwarships.com

Here is a link to a review on this website.
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/bo ... rkyCV5.htm

Steve Wiper

[JTninja]

^ An excellent resource for any Yorktown build.

It has all the photos from Pictorial #9 (Yorktown class), only larger and more detailed, as well as many more pictures not included previously.

[Vlad]

Is there a hangar parking plan for the Yorktown class? Something like the one below, that are easy to find for Japanese carriers but I've never seen one for a US carrier:



I know US carriers used deck parks, and with changing aircraft types the number and positions in the hangar may have been fluid. But I'd really like to see a typical loadout in say, early 1942.

[ModelMonkey]

None of my references include a parking plan for Yorktown class aircraft carriers, or any other US aircraft carriers. There may be a good reason for this. A parking plan may never have existed because American doctrine was to use the hangar deck only for maintenance and repair. Operational aircraft were normally parked on the flight deck (there are exceptions). Flight deck parking varied according to operational requirements, aircraft availability and air group composition. Aircraft requiring longer takeoff runs (TBD) were generally parked aft of those requiring a shorter run (F4F). I'll keep looking. If a parking plan did exist, another modeler/researcher may have one.

It should be noted that spare aircraft were stored hung from the hangar deck overhead.

Some photos that may help:
Notice in the photo below how empty the hangar deck is. Also note spare aircraft stowed overhead in the distance in various states of assembly.

This second photo shows Yorktown during the Battle of Midway, with more aircraft on the hangar deck.

This third photo may be Yorktown sometime before Midway (Coral Sea?) possibly preparing for flight operations.

This photo is pre-war Yorktown showing TBD parking.

The photo below is of Enterprise in October, 1941.

The next two photos below show various flight deck parking arrangements aboard Enterprise taken on different dates.

Notice in the photo below the wide variety of national markings on wings. There are even differences in markings on the same aircraft with a large marking on one wing and a small marking on the other. Perhaps the air group was in the process of changing markings when this photo was taken. Aircraft are parked very tightly.

The last photo is of Hornet during Midway.

[Vlad]

Thanks Steve, that illustrates the point quite well. It would seem that at least one whole squadron of SBDs, plus some of the F4Fs and some or possibly all the TBDs were on deck at once.

The reason I asked for hangar parking plans is because I read somehwere (and this may be wrong) that US doctrine was for a "one third deck park". So going off a nominal 72 aircraft for the Yorktown class, that would mean being able to stow 48 in the hangar. I played around with some scaled drawings and couldn't make that many fit, especially considering the SBDs and F4F-3s don't fold their wings. The leisurely arrangement of the SBDs in that Yorktown hangar photo at Midway would imply they were not deliberately tightly packed. Your pictures definitely show more than the "one third" (24 aircraft) routinely on deck.

And yes I am aware that these ships spotted and launched some 40-50 aicraft at a time e.g. at Midway, so I guess up to that many could be on deck permanently and the hangar only needs to accomodate 20-30. The "musical chairs" on deck when conducting limited flight ops that did not involve launching entire strikes must have been quite something...

[Vlad]

Thanks Steve, that illustrates the point quite well. It would seem that at least one whole squadron of SBDs, plus some of the F4Fs and some or possibly all the TBDs were on deck at once.

The reason I asked for hangar parking plans is because I read somehwere (and this may be wrong) that US doctrine was for a "one third deck park". So going off a nominal 72 aircraft for the Yorktown class, that would mean being able to stow 48 in the hangar. I played around with some scaled drawings and couldn't make that many fit, especially considering the SBDs and F4F-3s don't fold their wings. The leisurely arrangement of the SBDs in that Yorktown hangar photo at Midway would imply they were not deliberately tightly packed. Your pictures definitely show more than the "one third" (24 aircraft) routinely on deck.

And yes I am aware that these ships spotted and launched some 40-50 aicraft at a time e.g. at Midway, so I guess up to that many could be on deck permanently and the hangar only needs to accomodate 20-30. The "musical chairs" on deck when conducting limited flight ops that did not involve launching entire strikes must have been quite something...

I just thought of something else that might help me understand the above better. When Hornet launched the Doolittle raid, I have seen vague references to her "own air group being stowed in the hangar", except some CAP F4Fs. Given the deck park doctrine and the fact SBDs didn't fold, this shouldn't really be possible. Are there any pictures of Hornet's hangar during the Doolittle raid, or at least a complete manifest of how many aircraft were stored below and how many (if any) left on shore for the mission?