Calling all HMS York and HMS Exeter (WWII) fans

[dick]

.... two photographs on Page 21, both taken after the repairs. The upper is a starboard quarter view and includes "Y" turret minus blast bags. To my mind the upper ends of the gun ports are "square:" this image is credited to "MOD." The second image is credited to the "IWM" and is a starboard bow view: "A" and "B" turrets lack blast bags. To my mind, the upper ends of the gun ports are "round."...
"

For those without Tonks' booklet, these two photos can be found in the on-line IWM collection as A3553 and A3552.

...that when the ship was repaired after the River Plate action "Y" turret remained a Mk II* mounting with 50� elevation (it had remained serviceable), the destroyed as built "A" and "B" turrets were replaced by in store Mk I or II mountings with 70� elevation...
"

This does appear to be increasingly plausible, or A & B repaired to the Mk I or Mk II standard.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

...that when the ship was repaired after the River Plate action "Y" turret remained a Mk II* mounting with 50� elevation (it had remained serviceable), the destroyed as built "A" and "B" turrets were replaced by in store Mk I or II mountings with 70� elevation...
"

This does appear to be increasingly plausible, or A & B repaired to the Mk I or Mk II standard.

Well, but from operational point of view, a mixed bag of turret types will be a nightmare to control, so most likely all three turrets will have been brought to the same standard anyway. But to what standard?

Not Mk I, because these are visually clearly different. Not Mk II*, because these were the original Exeter 'Specials' with the 50� elevation.

So that brings me to the conclusion that after the 1941 rebuild most likely all three Exeter turrets were plain Mk II versions with 70� elevation. So very similar to sister ship York in the end.

[KevinD]

Quite interesting picture here, I hadn�t seen it before, and only 5 months before the Battle of River Plate.

If you liked that crop Marco, then here is the fill image.

[EJFoeth]

Incidentally, great pic; nice to see the cables' swivel piece stored in front of the breakwater.

[KevinD]

...that when the ship was repaired after the River Plate action "Y" turret remained a Mk II* mounting with 50� elevation (it had remained serviceable), the destroyed as built "A" and "B" turrets were replaced by in store Mk I or II mountings with 70� elevation...

Well, but from operational point of view, a mixed bag of turret types will be a nightmare to control, so most likely all three turrets will have been brought to the same standard anyway. But to what standard?
Not Mk I, because these are visually clearly different. Not Mk II*, because these were the original Exeter 'Specials' with the 50� elevation.
So that brings me to the conclusion that after the 1941 rebuild most likely all three Exeter turrets were plain Mk II versions with 70� elevation. So very similar to sister ship York in the end.

Thanks for you input Guest and Martin (well and everyone). I tend to agree with what I have underlined in Martin's above, not so much because I have enough knowledge to say what 'problems' a mix of turrets fore and aft may have caused, but from the elevation of Y turret as 'measured' on the wreck.

[Guest]

KevinD,

Am glad that the reference provided confirmation of what you found indicated on the wreck. I did find it odd though that "Tonks" did not quote what I would call a "primary" source for the information. You might now like to contact the Brass Foundry and ask them what the Ship's Cover contains on the matter.

I take Martin's point that it would have made sense to to repair/refit all three mountings to the same standard or fit spares of the same Mark. However, I would be interested to know if the information you obtain from the NMM does not agree with his thought and that HMS EXETER did see out the rest of her existence with "Y" mounting differing from "A" and "B."

[James M]

Hello all
I am helping a friend build a 1/96 HMS Exeter and need help with the shaft arraignment.
I am looking for photos of the Exeter or York shaft supports and strut arms.

Any help would be appreciated

James

[KevinD]

I am helping a friend build a 1/96 HMS Exeter and need help with the shaft arraignment.
I am looking for photos of the Exeter or York shaft supports and strut arms.

I dont know of many photos that show what your looking for, as not many of her in drydock. I might have one. Would plans do?

[KevinD]

You might now like to contact the Brass Foundry and ask them what the Ship's Cover contains on the matter.

Pardon my ignorance but where is the Brass Foundry, and does it go by another name? I am not in the UK so the name means nothing to me (except for what it obviousy does / did I assume?) And a Google search failed to produce the desired result.

I would be interested to know if the information you obtain from the NMM does not agree with his thought and that HMS EXETER did see out the rest of her existence with "Y" mounting differing from "A" and "B."

As stated above, not in UK so will probably never get to the NMM unfortunately.

[TomRigg17]

Google: 'ship's cover brass foundry' and you'll get more hits.
Basically it's a building in Woolwich(?) where the ship's covers and docs are stored.

[Guest]

TomRigg17,

Thank you.

KevinD,

I apologise! I understood from previous posts of yours on this site and others, that you had had dealings with the relevant part of the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich (NMM) in the past: I was wrong. The email address that you need is: plansandphotos@rmg.co.uk. That is the address for the Historic Photographs and Ships Plans section of the NMM and should hold the Ship's Cover that will hold most of the construction and alteration details for HMS's YORK and EXETER. To expand on TomRigg17's explanation, it is located in the area that was the old Woolwich Arsenal, in Greater London, in a building that was once used as a brass foundry, hence the colloquial name of "Brass Foundry" used by some who have regular dealings with it.

[James M]

I am helping a friend build a 1/96 HMS Exeter and need help with the shaft arraignment.
I am looking for photos of the Exeter or York shaft supports and strut arms.

I dont know of many photos that show what your looking for, as not many of her in drydock. I might have one. Would plans do?

Thank you, I have several plans, of which may or may not be helpful.
A photo would help figure out which ones are the correct shape and profile.

James

[KevinD]

This is the only one that I know of in drydock that shows her props (barely) but not the struts unfortunately.

What exactly are you looking for re struts? I have recently been going over video of them / that area (on the wreck) maybe there is something I can pull from there that would help?

[James M]

I'm looking for the strut info mostly.
I need some starting point on how long are they, what kind of taper or radius they have
The strut arms, how wide are they, what kind of radius do they have where they are welded to the strut bearing support

James

[TomRigg17]

James,
Would trying to find the same info on County class cruisers be helpful?
I'm thinking the propulsion between the two classes was identical, so using the same design for shafts etc. would've been easier.
Tom

[KevinD]

I was able to complete a large painting of the final battle at the River Platte.

Way cool. Don't suppose you have a photo of that you could post?

......... had a scout who served aboard the HMS Exeter right up to her sinking and was in the water with the other survivors until rescued. He served on the starboard side AA mount just abaft the funnel .

Well if he was at that position a couple of days before, i.e. 27th Feb 42, he was a VERY lucky man. All the crew from the right hand gun of that mount were killed when a shell from IJNS Haguro passed through it and exploded a boiler in B (or the aft) Boiler Room, knocking Exeter out of the action that day. (And supposedly, when cleaning up in Surabaya the next day the base plate of the shell was found and, lo and behold, it had 'made in the UK, or the naval equivilant thereof, stamped on it.)

Sadly many are now passed on.

I think now all, or all I personally knew, or knew of, sadly have. RIP.

Will read this thread with great interest. thanks to all hands

Thanks for the interesting snippet yourself Chris!

[KevinD]

KevinD, I apologise! I understood from previous posts of yours on this site and others, that you had had dealings with the relevant part of the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich (NMM) in the past: I was wrong. The email address that you need is: plansandphotos@rmg.co.uk. That is the address for the Historic Photographs and Ships Plans section of the NMM and should hold the Ship's Cover that will hold most of the construction and alteration details for HMS's YORK and EXETER. To expand on TomRigg17's explanation, it is located in the area that was the old Woolwich Arsenal, in Greater London, in a building that was once used as a brass foundry, hence the colloquial name of "Brass Foundry" used by some who have regular dealings with it.

Pardon the delay in acknowledgement, but thanks for that advice Guest. Much appreciated.

[Guest]

My pleasure!

[Brett Morrow]

James, I am making the assumption that the prop/bracket arrangement was identical or very similar to a County class.
Perhaps this image of Canberra could be of assistance to you.

[James M]

Thank you Brett
That is exactly the information I am looking for.
It shows the detail of the shaft exiting the hull, the connection point of the struts to the hull and roughly how log the bearing support is.

James