Calling all King George V-class (WWII) fans

[Mr. Church]

Re. DoY - do we know what colour the Clarks paint was?

Their anti fouling was red or black

Thanks dick for sharing all of this research. Very interesting. Looking forward to learning about Anson and Howe's underwater colours in due course too.

[Mr. Church]

Researching photos of the class for future model builds, a question has arisen?

Did H.M.S. Howe have her name in raised lettering on her stern?

Photos show King George V, Duke of York and Anson certainly did. As seen here in screenshot from this film of the Mothball Fleet in Gareloch showing H.M.S. Anson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tmllHc271I

The best I can find relating to H.M.S. Howe is the Alamy stock photo here which seems to imply no lettering on the stern, at least not while in reserve:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-1968- ... 01228.html

Assuming the photo is of course Howe. The 'date taken' listed with the photo is wrong, says it was taken in 1960 which is impossible as Howe would have been scrapped before then. Could be a typo and intended to read 1950?

So after all that, the question is does anyone know did H.M.S. Howe have her name in raised lettering on her stern while in service? Cheers.

[Cag]

Hi All,

Hi Mr Church, yes you're quite correct the ships name was at times seen on the stern of KGV class ships, Prince of Wales also had this feature, her name is seen in images of her launching and also seen in damage report images whilst in dry dock during her Denmark Strait repair.

In other images there seems to be a flat plate covering the name, no doubt for security reasons? I have a few images of Howe and will endeavour to take a look to see if I can spot anything, as for the image of Howe you posted, it could be her as the MKV HACS are in evidence, but of course that would also apply to the DoY. At that time frame Anson would have MKVI and KGV would still have the MKIV.

I'll let you know if I find anything
Best wishes
Cag.

[tjstoneman]

A postwar photo of Howe (March 1946) shows no name on the stern, but "HOWE" in raised lettering on the angled bulkhead on the after superstrucure, aft of the twin 5.25" mountings.

[Cag]

Hi All,

Hi Mr Church, I've checked images and films of Howe and I'm afraid I can't find any with a stern nameplate.

As tjstoneman correctly states there are pics of both Anson and Howe with nameplates on the aft superstructure, and images of Anson with her name on the hull, but not as yet anything similar for Howe, you may have spotted something new!

I'll keep looking
Best wishes
Cag.

[Martocticvs]

I only have a couple of photos of Duke of York post-war that show the stern at all, but it looks like the name remained there, so I suspect your photo is indeed Howe.

[Mr. Church]

Thanks Cag and tjstoneman, appreciate that.

These couple I found from the Imperial War Museum seem to imply no raised lettering on Howe's stern also. But is it difficult to be 100% certain as they are photographed from a distance and if the name lettering was in a small size like Anson's above and overpainted by the camouflage scheme it might not be apparent in such a photo. Also Howe is such a short name compared to King George V, Prince of Wales or Duke of York.

H.M.S. Howe 1942:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205144215

H.M.S. Howe January 1945:
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205160196

This post-war one of H.M.S. King George V clearly shows the lettering as the letters are presumably bright polished brass or whatever?
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205161889

[Mr. Church]

I only have a couple of photos of Duke of York post-war that show the stern at all, but it looks like the name remained there, so I suspect your photo is indeed Howe.

Thanks Martocticvs. The angle of the photo makes it tricky as you can't see front face of the aft funnel platform which would distinguish Duke of York from Howe. It can't be Anson or King George V as has been pointed out above as they had different HACS directors.

[Mr. Church]

Interestingly in this video of her homecoming in 1946 following Pacific War service H.M.S. Duke of York has nameboards on her aft superstructure as well as raised (presumably brass) lettering on her stern:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg5s4-lKSC4

Screenshots posted for discussion purposes, copyright rests with original owner:

I can't seem to find any equivalent videos or photos of H.M.S. Howe. She seems somewhat camera shy after the war. Though H.M.S. Vanguard had nameboards on the superstructure and no lettering on the hull. Perhaps Howe was the same?

[Cag]

Hi All,

Hello Mr Church, I have seen a pic of the stern of the Anson (I think its Anson as the port side camo slightly wraps around onto the starboard side of the stern post which I don't think is the case with Howe?), with crew repainting the lighter starboard camo colour. From the fit I'd hazard a guess the image is taken post catapult removal refit.

Again there are limitations but it's hard to see any nameplate on her stern. The names on King George V, Prince of Wales and Duke of York lay on the 2nd run of plating down from the upper deck, situated just below the overlap where the upper deck level plating meets it, (on plans the name lays on the letter "N" plate run just below the butt with the letter "O" run of plates above it) the Anson has her name on that upper deck level plate run (ie on the "O" plate run not the "N").

Is it feasible that both the 1937 build year ships Anson and Howe were completed without a stern nameplate, post war Anson had one fitted but in a different position and Howe never had one at all? I'm trying to find film of the launch of Anson or Howe (or Beatty and Jellicoe) but no luck as of yet.

Best wishes
Cag.

[Mr. Church]

Hi All,

Is it feasible that both the 1937 build year ships Anson and Howe were completed without a stern nameplate, post war Anson had one fitted but in a different position and Howe never had one at all? I'm trying to find film of the launch of Anson or Howe (or Beatty and Jellicoe) but no luck as of yet.

Best wishes
Cag.

I'd say you might be correct there Cag. This photo of Anson is on MaritimeQuest, listed as 1945. It's in Norman Friedman's British Battleships book too listed as March 1945, Anson leaving Plymouth following overhaul for Pacific War service. Clearly there is no name lettering evident on her stern. Difficult to make out, but there may not be any on her superstructure either? Understandable given wartime secrecy. Photo posted for discussion purposes and ease of viewing, copyright rests with original owner:

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_di ... f_1940.htm

[Cag]

Hi All,

Hello Mr Church, yes it's a bit of a devil that there are no close up in dock pics of the last two ships, or in film the camera pans toward the stern and then cuts off!

I'm sure there are film rushes somewhere, I know colour film was taken of the Halberd convoy, but wartime censors confiscated all but a few snippets, imagine a whole scene of PoW camo somewhere now either lost or more likely destroyed in some post war weeding exercise.

I think the National Archives have the ships books of both Anson and Howe, there may be something in there or in the ships covers at the National Maritime Museum.

May be worth a look, but I'll keep searching!
Best wishes
Cag.

[Mr. Church]

A video of H.M.S. Anson in mothballs in 1950. She looks to have a nameboard on the aft superstructure as well as the hull as seen previously:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvtlR8Ar3cU

Screenshot posted for discussion purposes only, copyright rests with original owner.

Would be nice to find a similar view of H.M.S. Howe.

[tjstoneman]

The nameboards on the after superstructures of Duke of York and Anson shown in photos in this thread look to be removable ones, to be fitted when in harbour and stowed away at sea, whereas the letters on Howe's superstructure in the 1946 photo seem to be permanently fixed directly to the superstructure, and not on a separate (portable?) board.

[Mr. Church]

I see what you mean tjstoneman. I did some further online digging this evening and came up with the following site which includes a (sad) photo of H.M.S. Howe being scrapped. It is low resolution but one can clearly make out the raised lettering you speak of:

https://padresteve.com/tag/hms-howe/

Photo reposted for ease of viewing and discussion, copyright rests with original owner. Added a red circle to highlight the lettering.

The photo would also seem to confirm the lack of any name in raised lettering on the hull.

[Mr. Church]

Some more evidence. I came across this clip on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qB84EM-jGpE

It is misleadingly captioned 'New British Battleships (1946)'. The first five minutes look to be off-cuts of the well known newsreel footage of H.M.S. Howe and H.M.S. Anson being completed and commissioned in 1942.

The final part of it, from about the five minute mark on all show H.M.S. Howe. It is undoubtedly H.M.S. Howe as her name is legible on the aft superstructure and her unique 40mm Bofors AA Armament and enclosed aft funnel platform are clearly visible. She returned to Portsmouth on January 9th 1946 following war service. So I can only assume that this is the occasion being filmed? It looks to be a wet and miserable day (quite likely in Britain in January) yet there is a large crowd plus a film crew gathered to greet her. I don't know Portsmouth Dockyard well so can't be fully sure, but it seems quite likely?

Anyway you can clearly see the raised name lettering on the aft superstructure and no raised name lettering on the hull:

Screenshot posted for discussion purposes and ease of viewing, copyright rests with original owner.

[Cag]

Hi All,

Hello Mr Church, great spot, I think it would seem that the last two ships didn't get a stern nameplate only a aft superstructure one until Anson got one post war?

Perhaps it was something to do with the suspension of work that affected these last two ships?

Once I'm able I'll take at peek at the ships books to see if there's anything in there

Best wishes
Cag.

[EJFoeth]

--

[Mr. Church]

Hi All,

Hello Mr Church, great spot, I think it would seem that the last two ships didn't get a stern nameplate only a aft superstructure one until Anson got one post war?

Perhaps it was something to do with the suspension of work that affected these last two ships?

Once I'm able I'll take at peek at the ships books to see if there's anything in there

Best wishes
Cag.

Thanks Cag. Yes that seems to be the story for Anson and Howe's stern nameplates.

[Mr. Church]

Ah, that name lettering

Howe_001.JPG

Very nice photo EJ, many thanks for sharing. That really clearly shows the lettering.

Obviously the plaque to the left of the name lettering is the ship's crest.

What is the one on the right though? The photo is not entirely clear and not high enough resolution to be sure, but it looks almost like three onion domes from an Orthodox Church? Could it be something to do with the Russia Convoys that Howe would have escorted?