Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 fans

[maccrage]

I recently picked up the Dragon 1/700 1945 Pennsylvania, and after studying photos, I'm curious about something. What are the two little structures at the base of the fire control top as shown in the first two pics? They are not on the model and not there in the third pic (and most others I've seen.)

I just realized there is a Sailor sitting on top of one of them in the second pic.

[Rick E Davis]

You do realized that the "platform" you are discussing is what remained of the lowest level deck of the "Fighting Top" after it was cutback during modernization. This May 1943 image shows the shape of the railing at that level. The "former" searchlight platform was converted to a 20-mm gun gallery.

Putting canvas on railings was an "option" by the crew/CO. Just because canvas shows in some photos and not others does say much. As canvas wore, it was removed and/or replaced. Also, in yard photos may show the canvas removed and had yet to be replaced. For some destroyers, as a weight saving the USN replaced solid bulwarks with railings. Some crews used canvas on these railings and in places like atop the pilothouse.

[ArmchairAdmiral]

Those railings go back at an angle, but the items shown in the initial photos are a different shape and begin slightly further back.

[Rick E Davis]

Well, yes slightly different. Looks like "maybe" a section of deck was added on each side and the railing turned in from the forward edge. But, in this June 1946 view, it doesn't look like an extension exists. I have to wonder if only the aft section of the railing has canvas added?

[taskforce48]

Well they are definitely Canvas covered, Perhaps some shipboard modification done to give lookouts a better field of view? Seems like she had them just around mid-late 44'

Matt

[airfan]

Great photos, many, many thanks. This will help build my Pennsy.

[airfan]

Yes, your guess is accurate.

[Timmy C]

An amazing colour photo showing Pennsy (and New Mex) on the San Fran waterfront in February 1942, from NARA: https://catalog.archives.gov/id/178141068

(attached version is cropped from the original in the above link)

[Rick E Davis]

Timmy, believe it or not, but this is one of the original transparencies that I scanned at NARA and then provided to the Photographic Collections Branch staff. NARA staff has been posting some of them online, but NOT using my notes ID'ing ships in the view and in some cases correcting dates. Some of the original captions are way off for the original transparencies. NARA has been assigning new ID numbers to these images, rather than using the original 80-GK image numbers. It makes it a pain to search for them and when you have a listing of all the 80-GK images, they aren't in order. This image is 80-GK-1026, a 5x7-in transparency.

The aircraft transport, is USS KITTY HAWK (AVP-1). Based on movements of the ships in the photo, where USS NEW MEXICO and her sisters arrived at San Francisco on 31 January 1942, this photo was likely taken after 25 February 1942 when USS KITTY HAWK arrived at San Francisco from Pearl Harbor and could have been taken in March. From USS PENNSYLVANIA's Deck Logs, she was in dry dock at Hunters Point 1-12 January 1942 and moored portside at Pier 7 during the balance of January and into February 1942. This is my crop of this image I posted sometime ago;

[JollyRoger61]

Hey folks,
Missing a couple of details on my Pennsy '45. Wondering if anyone has images of the kind of equipment circled? Can *sort of* make out some of it on the photographs but not enough to scratch build with confidence.

[ModelMonkey]

The "loading machines" under tarps are just a pair of 5" practice loaders mounted side by side, spaced as the real weapons would be inside a 5"/38 Mk.32 twin-gun mount. On many ships, an outline of the mount was painted on the deck in white. The photo below shows a single practice loader as it appears on museum ship USS Kidd DD-661.

The radar equipment under the tarp is a Mk.57 director. In the photo of the USS Missouri builder's model below, a Mk.57 director is circled in red. See also: http://shipbucket.com/wiki/index.php/Mk_57_GFCS

Here's a training film for the Mk.57 showing it in detail and in operation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_HUZSk8c2c

Hope this helps.

[JollyRoger61]

Wow, no wonder it didn't match the square on the line drawing, it was practice loaders! Ugh.... thanks so much!

[TZoli]

Does anybody have different views or models or even drawings of the 5"/25 Mark 10 guns Shielded mountings which was used on the Pennsylvania and likely other warships in around 1942?



These mounting looks very similar to that of the IJN's 12cm/45 Type 10 single shielded mountings
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNJAP_47-45_10ns.php

[BB62vet]

Tzoli - Here are croppings of several photos in the same series as your above posted photo - all showing the 5"/25 mount shields as of 1942 -

1020-42 Blow up.JPG (16.34 KiB) Viewed 59042 times

All are stbd side mounts.

Hope this helps,

[TZoli]

It helped as I've seen the platform for the loaders which seems to be the same as the mark 19 mounting. Thanks!

Did other ships used this shielded 5"/25 mounting?

[Fliger747]

Guy who lived across the street when I was a kid served on the "Pensatucky" during the war. Of course the veterans never talked about it then, too soon.

[ArizonaBB39]

I apologize if this has been discussed already, I looked through the whole thread and don't remember seeing the answer. I had a question about the searchlight platform on Pennsylvania's main mast. I know before the search lights were moved there it was a machine gun platform and looked thusly:

When the search lights were moved, did they build the circular extensions onto the platforms that are evident in her 1942 Mare Island refit pictures, or were those added during that refit? Seen here:

In those pictures you can see the original shape of the platform, and the obvious extensions around the search lights. As asked above, were those extensions added at the same time as the 20mm mounts, or would they have been there from the time the search lights were moved? I hope I'm making sense here, basically I'm trying to determine how the platform would have looked towards the end of 1941. Again I apologize if this was discussed already and I missed it in my re-read of the thread.

[FFG-7]

look at the time period & what is shown there as that is Feb 1942 with search lights in those locations & still there in March as per these links.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013839a.jpg
http://navsource.org/archives/01/038/013803i.jpg

[ArizonaBB39]

Well, I started going backwards through the thread to find a post from Jeff Sharp so I could contact him since he seems to have a knack at finding obscure pictures and lo and behold he had already posted a picture of exactly what I was asking about. I'm not sure how I missed it.

The answer to my question is, yes, they did build the extensions onto the platform at the same time they moved the searchlights. I've started designing the platform for my future build(s) of the Pennsylvania with help of documents and pictures on the forum or sent to me from Hank, Steve, and Jeff. Is it going to be 100% accurate? Most likely not since there aren't any plans I've found of the platform with extensions, but close enough will be good enough for my build(s)

[BB62vet]

Abram,

Having read the current question at hand and the replies, I went back and looked at the drawings I had made back in 2018 for the main mast. It appears I missed the boat on this one!! - I didn't include any of the extensions you are referring to - I don't know how this happened unless I was under the influence of torpedo juice at the time!!!

Although I haven't gone any further on my BB-38 project, this might be an interesting mini-project to do in 3D just for the hell of it. I think your last reply with Jeff Sharp's illustrations should answer your question as to the correct configuration of the revised and rebuilt searchlight platform. It also could be that at that time I simply didn't "see" the difference in the platform configuration from the earlier one (your #115254 & 115313) to the later version (your #11534 & 115401). As far as the question of "when" this modification took place, I have nothing to document the date of construction.

I would go back now and only use the Mare Island photos from Feb 1942 as reference. As a side note, when we moved to our current residence in 2018, I somehow lost the small box that had the main & fore masts inside. So, these parts (I've since managed to obtain replacements for the raw kit parts) would need to be replaced in any case. Doing a 3D DSM mast project might be an interesting exercise for the Fall. And...doing this in 3D would certainly produce much higher level detail in the final product!

I'll be interested to see how yours proceeds now that you've basically determined the direction to take on this.

Hank

Edit to Clarify - OK, my design of the mast was for the ship prior to her 1942 rebuild at SFNYD - it took me a while to recollect the time frame my model was to show. So, my guess would be that the mast rebuild took place after PH occurred when the ship was back in the States, but the exact date(s) I can't say (sometime in early '42 obviously). I don't have any photos of PENNSY at PH to substantiate her main mast configuration one way or another. So, I didn't "miss the boat", I was simply on another scheduled Water Taxi!!!