3D Parts Development for possible T-3 Tanker Project - 1/144

[NavyShooter]

Some nice parts there!

I've recently purchased a partially built 1/96 scale HMCS Bonaventure and will be responsible for fitting it out and getting her into the lake.

The 'hard' part with a 1/96 scale aircraft carrier is that there are seldom any aircraft kits available in that scale, and certainly none of the aircraft that were actually on the Bonnie - Banshee, Tracker and Sea King.

I've found a gent in the UK who's producing the 3D models for the Tracker and Sea King for me - I found a Banshee that I downloaded and have printed about 8-10 of them so far.

Do you have any suggested 3D models for doors/hatches that I could scale and print in 1/96? I admit, I like your deck locker as well...

Thanks!

NS

[BB62vet]

Nice work. some of these also can be used in other commercial ships with little or no modifications.

Mike - Thanks for the kind remarks! Yes, as Tom & I are exchanging 3D files for common items (and also those that aren't) I would certainly think that the deck gear (bitts, chocks, fairleads, etc.) as well as winches, windlasses, etc. would all be suitable for swapping between military/commercial ship models. Tom's scale of construction is different but that has not posed a problem except on my end being that working in 1/144 is scaling down his otherwise larger parts. As probably mentioned before, these may or may not print the same, so refinement is necessary. For example - his anchor chains were printing well for him in 120 and 125 scale but I was still unable to achieve a flexible chain UNTIL ...I changed over to using the same resin he was using - that made the difference. I may have stated this before (or perhaps both of us may have) - at the current state of 3D printing, nothing is set in concrete - it's all a learning process.

NS - Thanks again for the positive feedback!! Not being familiar with Royal Navy design stds., etc. - I can't say who would produce common superstructure items such as doors, portholes, hatches, etc. I do know that Model Monkey does offer parts & fittings in 1/96 scale, but his designs are for US Navy warships - you may have to research RN navy design stds. to see if there's any visible differences. Shapeways has several EU designers offering 3D parts for European & UK warships - that would be a place to check. I don't know of anyone at the present time who offers the 3D design files for someone to print themselves.

Latest developments - I printed a 2nd/3rd edition of the davit w/block, tackle & hook and will "attempt" to remove them from their supports as these did print (5 out of 8 ) but are extremely fragile - even with scaling up 110%. I've had them drying under my mini-fan for the last day to make sure the resin is set. A short UV cure this morning and they should be ready to "slice & dice". I've also laid out some bulkhead sections and printed to scale on 11x17 sheets for transfer to 1/8" thk board - I do this in 2D MicroStation CAD. I'm using the H.A.E.R. drawings of USS TALUGA (AO-62) for these bulkhead sections. This will be a long process, no doubt. I'm still thinking thru the actual method of putting together the hull skeleton, etc. Much info still needed.

Hank

[Fliger747]

I was for many years involved in the development of aircraft for MS Flight Sim. The distribution of any computer file based materials is problematic as they can be passed on, and on and on. So many clumsy, inconvenient and PITA systems for authorization were developed, with the ultimate result that I no longer have access to projects I was involved in the development of. Pascal responded to such an inquiry by noting that he had files which he had shared ending up for sale by others.

So currently it's the Wild West. I developed and printed for personal use many items which would have somewhat wide utility, 20 mm Orlikons, 40 mm Bofors, 5" twin mounts, LCVP's and on and on. Many of these items have already been created by others, but that's model building, creating our own ships or whatever.

So yes, we could sell files, but it's a bit like the joke about MS Windows being the most common pertains system in China, despite having ever only sold two copies.

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Tom,

Agreed - our arrangement works well for each of us, but going any further would not be advantageous to either of us, IMHO.

Printing the Davit, etc. - the 3rd edition wasn't worth keeping - I had printed them flat and that didn't really produce a good part. The 2nd edition came out actually better, if not still with issues. I printed those at 60� from horizontal -

Keep in mind that this item is barely 5/8" long and is extremely fragile to handle. Here are a couple shots of it after trimming supports -

If I were to use these it would require a lot more very careful trimming of support ends that remain on the part. I'll pursue doing a bit more work on design before printing a 4th edition. I know with this that it CAN be done, now to just refine it to a useable part!

While the shop warms up a bit, I'll head to the galley and make some cookies!!!

Hank

[BB62vet]

Hank, what kind of cookies?

Salted Caramel!

[Fliger747]

HANK:

Looks as if we are still ensconced in the "Hi-Bird" world for quite a while. Good thing since we can make a lot of detailed fiddly bits, but not currently design and print a hull, should we even have one large enough. "jes fiannn". Actually the experimentation to arrive at a satisfactory replica is sort of fun. We are achieving a higher average of first time luckouts!

Looking forward to seeing some bones to attach some of your "stuff" to. A hull is always in good taste, but yikes, a forward superstructure would be a fun project with bridge!

Keep Hammering, Hank....

Tom

[mikegr]

...

[BB62vet]

Tom,

Well, like other medias, 3D has staked out a place in model building and will only get better with time & $$$, right?? I recall going to the 2015 Fleet get-together of the 1/96 R/C crowd at Rocky Mount, NC and a guy there had a 3D printed model of a U.S.N. patrol boat - all, I mean COMPLETELY 3D printed, 1/96 scale model - it was beautiful, even for a modern vessel. Don't recall what program he used, or anything other than he had designed & printed it. So, it's a matter of learning what can be done, how to do it, and having the time to get it right. I think at this stage you & I are just solving situations more for our own use than something tangible in the ship modeling marketplace.

Mike,

I know that there are quite a few aircraft models produced in 1/144 scale - whether there is one out there that is what you are looking for, I can't answer.

Last night I managed to corrupt the davit file for the cane fender davit and probably won't be able to use it again. A redraw. So, I opened the small stores davit and began adding the various parts for the block & tackle to it - AFTER resizing due to having drawn it up a bit too small to begin with. I now have deck plans & sheer elevation view that is scaled correctly so I can double check these parts without having to do a lot of dimensional calculations. So, here's a partially completed davit - maybe get more work on it done today -

Again, this is another very small part (24mm high [7/8"]) so will be rather fragile to handle, etc. Once I have this printed and usable, I will return to the similar cane fender davit and redraw/reprint it, as well.

If I can convince The Admiral to put on her undress khakis today and accompany me into the Big City, perhaps we'll swing by Michael's and see what varieties of hobbby plywood they have so I can start working on basics for the hull construction. Once ensconced into her seat in Caddywagon, she won't be able to flail that damn Cat as she is so prone to do

Hank

[BB62vet]

I've got this part now to where I can try a test print this afternoon -

I'll orient this one at 60� from horizontal and see what happens - probably print one at scale, one at 105%, one at 110%, and one at 115% and see what comes out closest to being correct. The losers will be deep sixed into Davy Jones Locker.

Hank

[mikegr]

Some nice parts there!

I've recently purchased a partially built 1/96 scale HMCS Bonaventure and will be responsible for fitting it out and getting her into the lake.

The 'hard' part with a 1/96 scale aircraft carrier is that there are seldom any aircraft kits available in that scale, and certainly none of the aircraft that were actually on the Bonnie - Banshee, Tracker and Sea King.

I've found a gent in the UK who's producing the 3D models for the Tracker and Sea King for me - I found a Banshee that I downloaded and have printed about 8-10 of them so far.

Do you have any suggested 3D models for doors/hatches that I could scale and print in 1/96? I admit, I like your deck locker as well...

Thanks!

NS

how about building in 1/72 or 1/144?

I was looking for 1/144 F4F for a future project. I found out that only Revell produce them but not anymore. The price was unbeatable around 3-4 euros each.
Printing will be much costier plus they dont include caliper, decals, armament and perhaps not even wheels. I guess 3d printing has a lot yet to beat massive production, if ever.

[Fliger747]

Mike:

3D printing makes sense where you (1) have a requirement for an item no one produces (2) It's an item that might be expensive in quantity or if you are hand building, requires extensive replication. If you could design and produce the F4F yourself, it would make sense to print if there aren't any out there. I was able to design and print the multitude of light AA for my 1:192 Alaska, the 5" mounts and all the directors, small to large, which would have amounted to considerable expense if purchased. More commonly ships may have a lot of items which are simply not standard, such as all the winches on the ARL. For the APA I created masters for a number of items, such as life rafts, winches and for the first try (Pre 3D) the LCVP's and resin cast them. As there were only two types of winch, and both of those used similar components, it was a satisfactory solution. I have the Whelan Davit winches painted and ready to replace as the 3D items are much better. I also replaced the light AA and directors that I had hand constructed as the 3D items are much better. Perhaps Willie or EJ Foeth could hand construct items of equal quality. I also replaced the inclined ladders which I had constructed from paper, they were pretty nice, but again the 3D methods could incorporate such detail as the lightening holes in the side rails.

By comparison, aircraft are more difficult to design because everything is some sort of compound curve and require greater capability than my freebie 3D design program I use. I worked making MS Flight sim aircraft "fly" and was always astounded by the talents of the 3D designers I worked with.

Cheers: Tom

[DrPR]

Mike,

The Revell F4F was the first plastic model I built - back about 1954! I don't know what scale it was.

Before that I was spending my money of some pretty crude and cheap formed balsa sheet airplane models. My older brother was building more expensive stick and paper rubberband driven propeller aircraft - about 1:12 scale.

Then I discovered ship models and never looked back.

Phil

[Fliger747]

A somewhat on topic question for our ordinance experts: These tankers were armed with several of the 3" 50 AA weapons. A major reason for the post war adoption of the twin automatic 3"50's was the 75mm shell could contain a VT shell as opposed to the 40 mm Bofors, which could not. (1) Was the 3" 50 VT shell deployed during the war and (2) If so did this increase the manually loaded 3" 50 into a somewhat useful AA weapon?

Cheers: Tom

[DrPR]

Tom,

I read through the "U.S. Navy Bureau of Ordnance in World War II" (Bureau of Ordnance, U. S. Navy, U.S. Government Printing Office) chapters on the 3"/50 and the VT fuse. The 20 page description of the VT fuse development, production and use during the war is very detailed. It said nothing about incorporating the VT fuse into the 3"/50 during the war.

The parts describing the early 3"/50 guns do not mention the VT fuses. However, a chapter on post-war munitions says the new rapid-fire automatic 3"/50 that was in production in 1946 did have the VT fuse.

The body of the original VT fuse (inside the shell) was about 2.5 inch diameter (63.5 mm) and 7 inches long (178 mm). That wouldn't leave much room for an exploding charge in the 3" shell.

Phil

[Fliger747]

The exploding charge in the normal 3" shells was about 1.7 lbs, in the VT shell about 1.3 lbs. However a hit with a small charge and fragments is much more valuable than a miss with a 16"! Aircraft, especially Japanese wartime creations were generally quite fragile. The Lockerby Pan Am 747 was brought down bu a less than 2 lb charge.

Close only matters in hand grenade fights, Nuclear warheads and VT shells. OK, an exaggeration, but the effectiveness increased greatly.

[BB62vet]

Dr PR wrote:

Before that I was spending my money of some pretty crude and cheap formed balsa sheet airplane models. My older brother was building more expensive stick and paper rubberband driven propeller aircraft - about 1:12 scale.

I did also, Phil - those more than likely were the old Gullows wooden airplane kits (balsa w/tissue paper skin) and the old Testor's 2D balsa fighter planes you punched out of a single sheet of balsa wood and had the metal clip on the nose for weight. They provide a notch and the slingshot for launching!! Those were the days, weren't they?

Testor's Go Hi Plane Kit.JPG (32.31 KiB) Viewed 804 times

The last round of davits printed "useable" - 7 out of 8 printed and 5 out of the 7 came out in one piece. The other two - after thorough drying, I can carefully cryo the block & tackle back onto the point of breakage and then also use. I may post photos of this (fixed & painted) later today. By "last round" I should say that this is the 4th edition as the one before did not come out due to the orientation of the parts. As it turns out, they print correctly in a horizontal position, with a 15� backwards angle and supported all around. I don't put supports under the tackle (between blocks) and so far, they have printed very well. Support removal is very tedious at best, so overdoing it doesn't really help in the long run.

Currently, I am working on the T-3 foremast design - a slightly different version from my original CIMERRON foremast which I posted pictures of earlier. Using alum. tubes from my Micro Mark grab bag of metal tubing, I have hollowed the mast in order to insert the tube to keep the printed mast straight - same as T. Falley has done with his POSIDEON mast & kingposts. I'll do the same when I redo the T-3 Kingposts, as well. By copy/paste method of bringing the original design into the current file, I can use parts of the original rather than drawing everything from scratch. This is a common feature in most CAD programs - 2D or 3D.

Hank

[BB62vet]

Well, upon inspection after drying, the line coming off the upper block to the cleat is severed on all the parts - so, I beefed up the line, the U-bolt, and the block frame and have things ready to reprint today. Just another iteration in creating parts that will print successfully.

T-3 foremast is taking shape and I may actually be ready for a test print today. Whether it will need to be sectioned into 2 parts is unkown at this time. I will print the yardarm separately as this will result in a better part all the way around.

Hank

[NavyShooter]

Can I inquire which 3D modeling/design program you are using?

To this point, I'm using a basic/simple one that's free/online. I'm realizing it's limitations and am looking for something that will be a bit more flexible/capable.

Thanks!

NS

[Fliger747]

NS:

Hank and I use "Design Spark Mechanical" with is "free" and does have limitations such as no mirror tool and isn't optimal for precise compound forms such as boat hulls though I did manage to cobble up a 26' MWB and 36' LCVP. Mirroring can be achieved in the Chitubox program which is a small workaround.

Good luck! Tom

[BB62vet]

Design Spark Mechanical is, as Tom pointed out, a freeware program but also "offers" a paid for version with all the bells & whistles. I really don't think that's necessary - esp. in the light of both of us being able to produce some pretty damn-well detailed parts using the basic freebie. Unlike my professional level 2D CAD program (Bentley PowerDraft), I don't actually make drawings with DSM, simply the parts files and then print the results.

My new (3-week-old) mouse died last night while in a DSM file and had me completely freaked out!!! But, borrowing my old 10-year-old mouse from my shop computer, I was quickly back in business. I've contacted Amazon's 3rd party vendor and they will ship me a replacement mouse and a tiny gravestone.... Donning a pair of surgical gloves, dissection will commence once my Optivisor lens are polished and clean.

My last print (5th edition stores davit - not the singers!!) was successful although the line from the upper block to the side cleat is droopy - drying hasn't improved it but I will more than likely keep these and move on using the basic file to redesign the other small deck davit which I corrupted last week (I'm no saint.... )

Thanksgiving is close at hand - I hope everyone has a quiet and thoughtful day of rest and contemplation - a lot to be thankful for....as well as hopes for a better tomorrow.

Hank