ARL 12 USS Poseidon

[mikegr]

multitalent.
design 3d items is a new world especially for people who are aged and have learned building things in a traditional way.

[Fliger747]

Mike:

A lot of trial and error. When we look at Song's wooden building technique, he was very genius in breaking down complex items into a number of basic shapes to estimate a complex piece of equipment. In my take on 3D design I used this same system, for instance a barrel is a cylinder, with perhaps a taper or several tapers, a carriage and it's equipment a sequence of 2D shapes that can be drawn and "pulled" into a 3D form or forms. In many cases advantage comes from being able to replicate a portion to create a longer item. An example is a ladder, even a long one going up a mast. A few rungs can be created and then copied and extended. Some items have advantage over PE with a greater range of 3D dimension. Railings can be rounded etc, though in the case of PE, as fragile as it can be, it can currently be made finer than the structural qualities of resin currently allow. Very fine hand rings could be printed on for example a 1;192 5" twin mount but such fine items do not currently print so finely for longer deck railings. Because one can design vey tiny items with great detail, the process does not currently allow complete realization, though experimentation does allow some achievement, for example I was able to achieve fairly small flexible chains. Having a small printer and desiring to build ships of a reasonably large scale I am currently using traditional construction methods and decorating with 3D items. My software and skills do not currently allow design of a large hull anyway.

Though I have had decent luck printing a standard item I have created in several scales, sometimes modification is necessary for optimal results. I was surprised that my 40 mm Quad and 20 mm single mounts printed very well in both 1:120 and 1:192. My Alaska ended up with very large numbers of these and I shared the 5"38 twins between Alaska and Missouri as well as the MK 37 directors.

My 3D items take the place of the components that modelers typically purchase from vendors.

Good work on re doing your hull so quickly. persistence is a useful trait. As I used to do body work (my own) I got pretty good with working with the materials. The sureform planes which resemble a cheese grater, cut down to the basic shape very quickly and eliminate a lot of sanding.

Best regards: Tom

[mikegr]

Mike:

A lot of trial and error. When we look at Song's wooden building technique, he was very genius in breaking down complex items into a number of basic shapes to estimate a complex piece of equipment. In my take on 3D design I used this same system, for instance a barrel is a cylinder, with perhaps a taper or several tapers, a carriage and it's equipment a sequence of 2D shapes that can be drawn and "pulled" into a 3D form or forms. In many cases advantage comes from being able to replicate a portion to create a longer item. An example is a ladder, even a long one going up a mast. A few rungs can be created and then copied and extended. Some items have advantage over PE with a greater range of 3D dimension. Railings can be rounded etc, though in the case of PE, as fragile as it can be, it can currently be made finer than the structural qualities of resin currently allow. Very fine hand rings could be printed on for example a 1;192 5" twin mount but such fine items do not currently print so finely for longer deck railings. Because one can design vey tiny items with great detail, the process does not currently allow complete realization, though experimentation does allow some achievement, for example I was able to achieve fairly small flexible chains. Having a small printer and desiring to build ships of a reasonably large scale I am currently using traditional construction methods and decorating with 3D items. My software and skills do not currently allow design of a large hull anyway.

Though I have had decent luck printing a standard item I have created in several scales, sometimes modification is necessary for optimal results. I was surprised that my 40 mm Quad and 20 mm single mounts printed very well in both 1:120 and 1:192. My Alaska ended up with very large numbers of these and I shared the 5"38 twins between Alaska and Missouri as well as the MK 37 directors.

My 3D items take the place of the components that modelers typically purchase from vendors.

Good work on re doing your hull so quickly. persistence is a useful trait. As I used to do body work (my own) I got pretty good with working with the materials. The sureform planes which resemble a cheese grater, cut down to the basic shape very quickly and eliminate a lot of sanding.

Best regards: Tom

Thanks for the valuable info.
I have started some tutorial on tinkercard, manage to make some basic models like hand ladders. Hopefully later i will have my 3d printer so i can use it to make some parts for this and my following projects. So apart from spending time on construction i practice this too so i wont leave myself behind as technology advances.

[Fliger747]

Mike: One of the best things about this site is the willingness of modelers to share knowledge and technique. Whatever way we end up doing something might or might not be the best, but does work for our availability of tools and materials. Not everyone has a lathe, scroll saw or whatever but there are often alternate ideas that come to mind when we see how someone works. Bravo for redoing the hull, many would just give up at that point. never be afraid to re do some item if it can be sufficiently better. I've been printing and designing for about a year now. The capability of reasonably priced equipment has really increased. Some day I'll have a new printer of increased abilities. Typically with Tech equipment, I skip a generation and am not an early adopter funding all those who follow. Until recently I still used an I Phone "Zero" but finally picked up a six, in Russia where it's not locked. A phone plan there is about six bucks a month.

On topic? Today I added a portside post, the usage of which is uncertain. I printed a trial canvas top for the flying bridge of the ARL, a few modifications and printing another. We shall see, a brass wire framework with a tissue canvass might work better, maybe.

Regards: Tom

[Fliger747]

Noel Paris of Malta sent me this photo he found that shows the infamous "pole". Here it appears to be rigged for extending the A frame derrick with a pulley at the end and lines rigged across the deck for a "pull". Good question as to where this was taken from, a shipyard crane? This ship varies somewhat from Poseidon during WWII in some deck details but has the basic equipment configuration the same. Also a good photo of the midships winches.

Cheers: Tom

[BB62vet]

Tom,

Quite an interesting photo - lots of deck level equipment, fans/blowers, etc. All will help sort out the questions I'm sure you're confronted with in what's what, etc.

Hank

[Fliger747]

Hank:

Yes it's a great photo though as I wrote, the arrangement of the vents etc are different than Poseidon. Notable are the huge turnbuckles used for the stays to take the strain in the lowered position. I should be able to do these.

A question for the peanut gallery (actually respected knowledgable compatriots): The flying bridge had a frame with a canvass sun/rain cover. The idea was to dye these to more or less match the ships color. (1) Wound the canvass be dyed to match Deck Gray? (2) if dyed to match the superstructure color, would these fade to look somewhat lighter than the painted metal? Another "eye dunnoh".

From Noel's photo, and actually my Poseidon photos, it is apparent that the cross deck I beams by way of the Derrick, are painted the hull color and not deck grey. Another roundtuit after I am relieved from Mail Buoy watch.

Tom

[raggs]

I find this post absolutely fascinating. Not only for the build itself but, also the history and time line improvements on these class of of ships.
Tom has clearly gone above an beyond providing pics from his Pops service. Thank you Sir. Not to mention the other folks on the forum who have the
wherewithal to pull pics out of obscurity & help out.

One can look thru Navsource and find pics with appropriate "dates" for early ARL, AGP, ARB conversions (late summer 43)
They are all specialized repair ships, but can multi function as I'm sure Service Squadron 10 was required to do as it came into it's own.
As they evolved you can see the changes, mid 43 & 44 launchings as opposed to 1945 launchings and refits.

Toms post above of ARL-3 midship is probably the BEST early arrangement for the winches dated August 43 in San Francisco.
As time evolved, and lesson learned, quickly, they were repositioned, along with BETTER ventilation, and elongated bridge wings & the "pole"

Thanks Guys for trying to keep me sharp.

[DrPR]

Tom,

I agree with your assessment of the pole rigging. It looks like a double sheave on the inboard end, and it appears to be rigged so that when the line is hauled out the pole is pushed outboard. Presumably it is attached to the A Frame to push it outboard. I don't recall seeing anything like this before, but it should work.

As far as the canvas, it wasn't dyed. I think it was painted with whatever paint was available. Some, if not all, of that stuff was a coated canvas and olive drab in the original color. I have a friend who has a piece that her father-in-law brought home from the Navy after WWII. However in the 1970s the canvas we had was just a basic white thread.

Looking at my photos it appears the canvas was panted a darker shade of gray that the superstructure ocean gray. It could be deck gray. It was a more-or-less horizontal surface so deck gray makes sense. However, in the photos it appears to be a dirty gray. If you have ever been in port when oil burning ships blow stacks (flush the interior of the uptakes with steam to blow out the soot) you will understand why it looks dirty! They usually do this about 0100 when you can't see the clouds of soot coming from the stacks.

When I first went aboard the OK City we had a no-nonsense Captain. He commanded a warship and the topside canvas was gray. Then we got a new XO who wanted to paint the canvas white. The Captain told him "You want to make my ship look like a circus boat!" Then we got a new Captain, and the XO got his white canvas. But it wouldn't stay white with all the soot in the air. The deck crews hated it because they had to wash it every day to keep the XO happy.

Phil

[Fliger747]

Phil:

Yes the amount of soot that issues from the uptakes when they are "blown" is truly impressive. A material much like I encounter when I work on my oil fired furnace at home. Certainly not something that was done in a war zone at sea during daylight! I can imagine that the relationship between a Captain and the XO could occasionally be like an arrange marriage. Currently I am going with a deck grey wash on the canopy. The ARL was a diesel powered vessel with the exhaust ports in the hull sides about abeam with the bridge so perhaps not so much sooting topside. It's funny how much sounds and smells can bring back memories, whine of blowers mixed with whiffs of uptake gasses.

Cheers: Tom

[Fliger747]

Showing the canvass cover for the flying bridge. Looks a bit faded? Apparently the forecastle rigged for ship's movies, probably at Ulithi. Notice the "undress white" jumper (T-shirt) worn by bridge personnel.

Tom

[DrPR]

Tom,

The photo was taken in bright sunlight (harsh shadows) so the canvas could be dirty deck gray or just the khaki/olive drab stuff that was flowing overseas in huge quantities. During wartime beggars can't be choosers. But there was always comshaw or midnight appropriation.

****

It really didn't matter that the ARL had diesels if it was in a place like Ulithi and the fleet was in. Everything got covered in soot.

My first ship was a small diesel-powered minesweeper, and when we went to San Diego we had to wash down the soot from time to time. It all depended upon what direction the wind was blowing after midnight.

Phil

[Fliger747]

Phil:

Certainly the ship would have had a sailmaker on board and I expect that in a fleet anchorage the ship was capable of making almost anything that there was much trade of goods and services, some in the darkness of night. I have a brass ash tray with the ships name in large block letters, cleverly and nicely made. The somewhat "fuzzy" surface of dry canvass at a low angle certainly is more reflective and has a higher "value" in a monochrome photo. There are some photos of ARL's etc take from aloft in NAVSOURCE so I'll have to go back and review them to guess what a reasonable tone would be for the cover.

What I don't currently know is where the the Captain won the jeep at, apparently it was in a poker game from an Army Officer. I do have photos of it on Okinawa and near Port Orchard Washington. Handy to have ship's "wheels". I suppose they could have stowed in in one of the LCVP's.

Tom

[Fliger747]

Brass ash tray, USS Poseidon, Okinawa. Body was apparently turned on a lathe and the letters added?

[DrPR]

Tom,

That ash tray was probably made from spent brass powder casings that "accidentally" fell overboard. The ARL surely had a furnace for brass/bronze casting, and it would be pretty easy to produce the ashtrays. Something like that with another ship's name would be valuable trade material for unauthorized transfers of goods from that ship!

When I was on the little minesweeper we used 5 pound cans of coffee to expedite work at the ship yard, and if we needed something really special we gave a canned ham to the Chief in charge of the shops.

Phil

[Fliger747]

I always thought it might have been from a 5" powder casing. There were of course many useful trade items. However apparently being at the end of a long supply chain at Okinawa they were down to living on Powdered potatoes, powdered milk and powdered eggs for some period of time. Dad still can't eat mashed potatoes. When the ship was de moved, there was some trouble about the jeep for which there was no paperwork. Another relic I have is Dad's USN Mk II Kbar which he was issued. The Japanese had swimmers at Kerama Reto who would board the ships at night. Also maybe useful (for comfort) when they were ashore.

T

[BB62vet]

Speaking of powdered this-n-that - when I arrived on board STODDARD in June 1966, during our first week long outing to San Clemente Island for gunfire exercises was my first exposure to powdered milk - it wasn't so bad as long as it was really cold. But, let it get warm and it tasted like crap!!! Usually, after a 30-day gunfire support mission off the NVN coast, our milk ran out and we ended up drinking "bug juice" which was much more palatable in the long run than was the powdered milk.

Our machinists managed to find time to convert both 5" and 3" spent brass into ashtrays as long the the XO couldn't trace who had produced it.

Long live Kumshaw marketplace!

Hank

[Fliger747]

Could be worse, rice balls and fish sauce.... The rice balls OK but hold the fish sauce. I always wondered if being able to "splice the Main Brace" accounted for RN's legendary aggressiveness. Thanks to J Daniels, Secnav, the USN was nominally dry. Being out of practice can make one particularly exposed to the effects on shore leave.

You may fire when ready Gridley...

Tom

[Fliger747]

Closer to the pointy end of the spear. Here on Ie Shima the famous war correspondent Ernie Pyle was killed, April 1945. A tough campaign. Few participants had any illusions about the invasion of the home Islands. General Simon Bolivar Buckner was killed by an artillery shell while observing operation from distant hilltop. His replacement Marine General Roy Geiger was the only Marine to command an operation of this size.

You could even get killed peeling potatoes.

[Fliger747]

Small progress today, printed a pair of smoke generators and added a support for the flying bridge canopy on the centerline in front, worked on mixing some more paint , surprised at the amount of blue that goes into it. Getting the right amount of purple may be a challenge. I know the ship had the smokies as my dad mentioned making smoke as an anti Kamikaze measure. As Sphinx drawings are post war, no help but guessing they are on the fantail somewhere. Got a bunch of those small plastic boxes for fishing lures and whatnot for sorting and storing the large amount of 3D printed bits that are accumulating.

Happy thanksgiving to all the Amerikaners! Tom