The Ship Model Forum

And one more treat:

Here is film of Alexandria harbor in 1940, with HMS Janus, HMS Jervis, and HMS Juno transitioning from their light gray to light/dark gray Alexandria camo schemes (I may have posted this somewhere else once, so please bear with me if you have seen this before). The painting of the dark panels had just begun:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C191632

See seconds 50 through 1:30.

Wonderful stuff this.

Enjoy and stay healthy!

Mike E.

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Mike E.

All:

Some more eye candy...

A film by a member of the crew of HMAS Napier filmed between June 1941-February 1942 at:

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1014206

Features include:

HMS Kimberley and an Aussie N class destroyer at the 6:00-6:08 minute mark

HMS Ajax (beautiful!) and then HMS Valiant at the 9 minute mark +

HMS Napier bridge scenes at around the 12 minute mark

HMS Ajax again at 13:50

HMS Kandahar (?) at 14:40-14:48

HMS Kingston at 14:48-15:00

14th Destroyer Flotilla entering Haifa Harbor at 15:00-15:30

HMS Jervis going to pick up survivors from HMS Barham at 20:21-20:23

Enjoy!

Mike E.

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Mike E.

A belated and sincere thanks to Tim Stoneman for his response to my question above.

I have Chris Langtree's book, and indeed it is an invaluable reference regarding the JKN class destroyers.

Many of my questions pertain to gaps in Langtree's book, but sincere thanks for taking the time to respond.

Stay healthy and well!

Yours truly,

Mike E.

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Mike E.

The Flyhawk 1/700th Legion has thin cylindrical parts extending perpendicular from the forward (4 pieces) and aft (2 pieces) deckhouses and from the stern (1 piece). The length of the largest of these pieces would be about 3.5 meters on the prototype. Painting instructions show these parts as a wood brown.
What were these on the ship itself? Were they some sort of wooden fenders and were they fixed, or could they be folded parallel to the keel like similar but longer parts of the kit placed at deck level?
I've never seen these pieces on a photo of a L class or any RN WWII destroyer; but they are small enough that they might not be visible unless deployed or deliberately photographed.
TIA

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Harold

I believe you may be referring to what I have circled, if so they are loading spars.
The circled spar is in the stowed position, they could be folded out and would have a load bearing cable attached at its end and a block and pulley arrangement fitted to haul goods onto the ship. Many of these spars were fitted or stowed on the gunwale and can be easily missed.
The spar on the stern would be for a Jacobs ladder. they were made of wood which would explain the instructions listing them as brown, they would in fact be painted the same as the ship. Hope this helps.

Brett you are THE MAN
This is precisely what I needed; accompanied by a photo of G74 herself, no less.
Odd that Flyhawk's instructions would depict all of these as swung out; I'll remedy that in the build.
Also painting the spars the ship's colour makes good sense.
Many thanks!

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Harold

This is regarding an L Class ship, but seeing as the previous post was about Legion and there doesn't appear to be an L-M class page, I am posting this query here.
I am going to build my Flyhawk Lance as HMS Gurkha, as at the time she sank. I have two questions.
1) was she carrying the 0.5 quad MGs still at this point in the bridge wings? Some sources say these 4 ships (Lance and sisters) completed with 20 mm Oerlikons. John English's book implies this. But I have seen Lance with the 0.5s. Does anyone have any information for Gurkha - whether she had 20mms or 0.5s in the bridge wings, or additional 20 mms abreast the searchlight amidships. From the photos of her sinking I am really not sure.
2) In those photos she is in a two-tone scheme, dark hull, light upperworks and upper hull. Would that be Light grey upper, dark grey lower? It looks too dark to be the more medium shade of grey. Or could it have been B5? Anyone like to hazard a guess?

Martin

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On the drawing board
HMS Gurkha (1/700)
On the slipway:
HMS Sheffield 1/600
HMS Lance 1/700

According to the Spring 1941 armament return CB 01815B L Class destroyer HMS Gurkha completed with 2 x quad 0.5". Frustratingly I don't have a copy of the relevant page of the subsequent Autumn 1941 edition to see if substitution of 2 x 20mm was recorded but I fancy I see the distinctive rectangular shapes of a shielded 20mm on the bridge wing in this photo of her sinking (and no 20mm platforms either side of the searchlight platform).

Light grey 507C and dark grey 507A would be my suggestion for the paint colours. I suggest that B5 would have been most unlikely.

You fell into the "other vessels of the same name" trap, David. They're talking about the later Gurkha: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Gurkha_(G63)

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Thanks, Dick, for your helpful reply. I think you are probably right, that does look like the rectangular shield of the Oerlikon. Where are the documents you mentioned to be found (the Armament Returns)? If they are at the National Archives, I can have a look next time I'm there.

Martin

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On the drawing board
HMS Gurkha (1/700)
On the slipway:
HMS Sheffield 1/600
HMS Lance 1/700

Yes, at TNA Kew. The one I did not have a copy of the relevant page of was ADM 239/71. However I have found that they can sometimes be a bit behind in recording changes and of course the Oerlikons could have been fitted later but before Gurkha was sunk in January 1942.

Many thanks, I'll look it up next time I'm in Kew. Gurkha was in Portsmouth for repairs Nov-Dec 1941, so may, of course, have had 20mms fitted then.

Martin

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On the drawing board
HMS Gurkha (1/700)
On the slipway:
HMS Sheffield 1/600
HMS Lance 1/700

Hi All

I just stumbled across this site and thread and thought I'd sign up and maybe help out with J,K,N questions.

The one to watch out for is Khartoum as there is a lot of ill-founded speculation out there. The profile linked by Mike E. is a fantasy I'm afraid - that particular scheme didn't come into vogue until later in 1940 (around September 1940 as far as I am able to tell) after Khartoum was lost. The only thing we can be certain of was that her bridge and funnel were in AP507C and that she was still carrying the flag superior F when she was lost. I have still to come across any in service photos of Khartoum and the commissioning photos were lost when the shipyard was bombed. Very little was taken of the Red Sea flotilla though if one wishes to be speculative one could paint a model in an AP507A hull AP507C upperworks scheme a la Kandahar.

Christopher Amano-Langtree

Hello dear coleagues,
I feel uncertain about HMS Jupiter 1942 camouflage. Flyhawk suggests 507C with large spots of Dark Deck Gray, with red and blue bands on the funnel.
The only photo I have found so far is from Australian War Memorial: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C1021290
What I see on this foto is very dark (M.S.1 ?) stern, and lighter color on the spots with the same pattern as Flyhawk. I believe this color could be B.5. No funnel bands.
Any opinions, suggestions, hidden photos in personal vaults?

The AWM date early 42 is likely correct, after transfer to Eastern fleet. The scheme appears as applied in Sept 41, 507A and C, with new Black panel added to the stern.
The funnel bands you mention were 14th flotilla one red over one black, removed upon eastern fleet transfer. An image appears on pg. 122 in `The Kellys` of her in Med Sept 41 reflecting that scheme with flotilla bands.

Jupiter did indeed remain in her Mediterranean colour scheme with the addition of a black panel (which was a 14th flotilla identification feature). Funnel bands were red and black (the RN only used red, black and white for destroyer flotilla funnel bands). If modelling Jupiter in the Java Sea one has to watch out for the replacement single 4.7 inch gun fitted after the battle with the I60.

Christopher

I've read through this topic, and looked through Langtree's book, but I'm still unclear on something.

It appears that the hulls of the ships boats were painted to match the color of the ship, including any camouflage patterns, even if that pattern bisected the boat. Question is, on the motor boats, were the sides of the cabins painted to match the camouflage, or were they painted a different color?

It looks like the cabins were painted the color of the ship, but I wanted to be sure (I'm puttering around with an old WEM Kelly as a side project, and about to paint the boats).

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

I think that this is the sort of detail that can vary both ship by ship and through time. One just has to check the photo record for the ship in question at time you are interested in. In the case of Kelly the photos I have appear to show the sides of her boats' cabins were dark varnished wood and their roofs light (white?). Sometimes they were covered with canvas/tarpaulin disguising this.

Thank you sir

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Working on the old Matchbox "Kelly" kit,which lets you build either Kelly or Kipling. Doing mine as Kandahar, in this scheme:


The kit (granted, it's ancient) gives you lollipop looking things to represent the depth charge throwers, with no reloads. I've found some drawings online, but no good closeup photos in books or online that show this area, which I'm trying to flesh out with 3D printed parts. Does anyone know these drawings accurately capture the layout?

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery