HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)

[marijn van gils]

Did you forget to degrease the parts or you think the paint peeled because resin was seeping from under the paint? I have used the tamiya masking tape, and even stronger all weather blue tape and have rarely had paint lifting like it did (basically only once, on my Washington build). So Im very surprised you suffered from this, considering your experience. Id guess just a coat was thin on primer and resin was a bit greasy, or just a finger print got in the way. Either way, this has to be pretty rare event to worry about it.

This was the first time it happened to me, and I am sure I did something wrong indeed. Only, I'm not sure what I did wrong...

Certainly it has nothing to do with resin, as I only had a couple of minor flakes on the resin hull of Victory but large flakes on the hull of the all-styrene Redoutable.

I did wash all parts carefully before priming. I'm never worried about mold-release agents on plastic kits, but I do know my fingers leave plenty of grease on my models during construction.

The amount of time I left tape on the models does seem to be a factor: the largest flakes occurred where I had left the tape for 4 or 5 days. But even when leaving tape on for several days, it shouldn't be a problem, so certainly I did do something wrong.

Flaking didn't occur between primer and base-coat, but between unpainted surface and primer.
So I Guess I did something wrong when priming? Maybe I built up primer coats too thinly, and the successive thin coats dried too quick and didn't bond strongly enough with the surface below? I don't know...

I would love to know what the problem was, so I can avoid it next time.

[Iceman 29]

To avoid paint peeling off as much as possible, I stick and peel the piece of Tamiya or other tape several times on a clean surface to reduce the effect of the glue. However, I carefully remove the tape immediately after painting. I try to remove the tape by pulling it as parallel as possible to the hull to avoid stressing the paint.

Some model plastics are really impregnated with release agent, I had hulls impossible to paint without tearing anything off and even after a careful cleaning of the surface. Sometimes it's annoying and frustrating.

You are doing well, nice job!

[Silenoz]

fabulous work...

for some reason blutack comes to my mind... Everybody always thinks to do it in sausages, but you can also apply it over surfaces, spread it like you want with for example a hobby knife , thin it around te edges and cut off to obtain sharp edges.

A large scale Harrier (1/144)

[bgire]

Hello Marijn,

Did you ever considere Parafilm (r) for masking?
I've been using this products exclusively for 28 years so far and I NEVER experienced any form of peeling on any support.
I even masked laid decals to apply a paint correction nearby without peeling them off.

In addition, complex curved surfaces can be masked with a single piece and as this material is transparent you can easily see where you're cutting.

Wonderful job: your diorama is very inspiring
_Bruno

[j.mahieux]

Maarten Sch�nfeld
Post subject: Re: HMS Victory and Le Redoutable at Trafalgar (1/300)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:34 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 12, 2008 11:44 am
Posts: 1468
Location: Herk-de-Stad, Belgium
j.mahieux wrote:
When you come back from Veldhoven, send us a packet of photos!

Jean

if I get there, I will use my eyes (and camera) well. My main objective will be meeting Marijn and study his dio in progress!






if I ask the question it is mainly to have other photos of Marijn's models!

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

... if I ask the question it is mainly to have other photos of Marijn's models!

Of course j. Mahieux, of course!

[marijn van gils]

Thanks everyone! Some very good masking tips here.
I think I will get me some Parafilm...


Meanwhile, I corrected/sharpened the black lines, and I hand painted the red of the gun ports.
As with late WWII battleships and carriers, everything related to the guns quickly becomes time-consuming. Applying 3 or 4 thin layers of paint to the four sides of a gun port, and correcting any mistakes again with ochre and/or black, is no biggie. Until you have to do it 100 times!

[dafi]

Wonderful!

And I loooooove this detail!

Bildschirmfoto 2022-06-22 um 10.29.11.png (39.12 KiB) Viewed 3093 times

The flap for the carronades

XXXDAn

[GewoonWouter]

Wow, that paintwork really starts to give it's character, impressive mate. Not that I expected anything else from you mate

[j.mahieux]

Magnificent work, live the brushes!
Jean

[marijn van gils]

Many thanks guys!

The flap for the carronades

I 'copied' it from you...
No idea if the color pattern is correct, but probably no way of knowing for sure...
I just took it from the quarterdeck of the present day Victory (ochre insides of the bulwarks, red around the gunports) and assumed it would be the same for raised forecastle bulwarks. I also applied the red to the side of the flap that faces downward when closed. This is guesswork at best, but at least it attracts a little extra attention to this detail, which I love too!

[pascalemod]

I notice how dark brown the lower hull of Victory is. Is that just sort of better than grey as it goes below water, or this is how you interpret discolored copper plating? Very curious to see what you do with that bit of ship. The ochre color you picked looks super also.

[wefalck]

She looks very austere and down to business ...

Are you aware of this paper:

VALE, B. (2020): Pitch, Paint, Varnish and the Changing Colour Schemes of Royal Navy Warship, 1775-1815: A Summary of Existing Knowlege.- The Mariner�s Mirror, 106(1): 30-42.

It is in part based on the analysis of paint chippings from HMS VICTORY, where a couple of dozen or so layers of various colours in various composition were identified.

[marijn van gils]

I notice how dark brown the lower hull of Victory is. Is that just sort of better than grey as it goes below water, or this is how you interpret discolored copper plating? Very curious to see what you do with that bit of ship.

It is only the base for painting the discolored copper plating on top. The final result will look nothing like this, but dark brown simply is a solid foundation for it.
That's the risk of posting in-progress photos!

Are you aware of this paper:

VALE, B. (2020): Pitch, Paint, Varnish and the Changing Colour Schemes of Royal Navy Warship, 1775-1815: A Summary of Existing Knowlege.- The Mariner�s Mirror, 106(1): 30-42.

It is in part based on the analysis of paint chippings from HMS VICTORY, where a couple of dozen or so layers of various colours in various composition were identified.

I was not aware of this paper (pity it is not open access, like so many other research papers nowadays). But I did base my colours on Victory as she has been repainted in 'Trafalgar scheme' as based on the paint chip analysis (very pale ocher instead of mustard yellow, dark grey instead of black, and vivid red gun ports instead of dark red).





The masts were not repainted yet in the first photo yet. They are a very pale yellow, almost an ivory colour, like the second photo.

I did choose an ocher that is a bit more yellowish, but I intend to make it a bit more pinkish in the next painting steps. It is easier to turn a yellowish base more pinkish than the other way round...
The dark grey also looks too dark now, but this will be lightened too with the next painting steps.

[Nanond]

Jaw-droppingly awesome work.

Your attention to detail is second to none.

Cheers!

[pascalemod]

I notice how dark brown the lower hull of Victory is. Is that just sort of better than grey as it goes below water, or this is how you interpret discolored copper plating? Very curious to see what you do with that bit of ship.

It is only the base for painting the discolored copper plating on top. The final result will look nothing like this, but dark brown simply is a solid foundation for it.
That's the risk of posting in-progress photos!
.

no no, i want to see how this progresses from brown. I have a 1/700 Victory in full hull sitting in "wine cellar" and ageing, waiting its turn to be built, so this is curious to see for me actually!

[dafi]

One never stops learning here!

I heard so many ways of aging a model - pigments, oil paint, casein etc - but that one is new for me even after all these years: Aging the model in the wine cellar :-0

All the best, DAniel

[StevenVD]

Marijn was OK with me posting a picture of something I noticed in the WME 2022 expo:



These colors give us some insight in what is to come.

[Joe Simon]

Wow! Those look great!

[marijn van gils]

Thanks Steven and Joe!

Indeed, I took the diorama to World Model Expo, to display the work in progress at our club display. I assembled the main components, which I gives an idea about the basic colours. But so much detail and �life� is still missing of course�

Some extra photo's: