The Ship Model Forum

Love the progress so far, PIGBOAT!

I just have one question, not knowing all that much about resin (other than the fact that I don't much care for it as a modeling medium�bad experiences). In such an application as the control surfaces for a working model (rudder, dive planes, etc), wouldn't resin be prone to brittleness? I wonder if it might be wise to have a means of making replacement surfaces and the ability to change out broken ones.

Please pardon my ignorance.

Goodwood

I love it when some one asks a sensible question.

The simple answer is that there is resin and resin.

There are so many different types of casting resin and they all have different properties. I'm still experimenting and discovering different ones and the very helpful rep from my resin supply company has let me try out some different ones. Casting resin (particularly for casting small and detailed components) needs to have as low a viscosity as possible, otherwise it's very difficult, nay impossible, to get it into the detail of the mould, even under pressure. Some of the first resins I used worked great but turned out to be brittle when it set hard. OK for more chunky components, but some of the fine stuff was breaking when it was extracted from the silicon moulds. De mould success rates were down to 60% or 70%. I unfortunately ended up with a lot of 1/48th scale Victorian Royal Navy figures who were all double amputees!

I then identified an alternative resin which was quite a bit stronger and the de mould success rate went up to 95%.

I'm currently trying a practically clear resin which is very tough. As its clear you can actually see drill bits penetrating so you know when to stop. Check out the picture below. This stuff is really tough.

Carving drilling and sanding the stuff I find easy (with care). If you are drilling into any of this cast resin (either by hand with a pin vice or with a power drill) withdraw the drill FREQUENTLY to clear any debris as it packs tight around the spiral of the drill bit, expands and can burst the component. If you hear the drill making squeaking noises you have a problem and I have actually broken small drills off.

It sticks very very quickly with CA glue (some sort of chemical reaction going on there I think) and leaves little or no time for re positioning. I tend to capillary glue into joints if I can. Always wash resin fittings in warm soapy water and rinse. The surface may have silicon release agent residues on it which makes gluing qualities poor.

In hindsight I could have designed all the rudder and diving planes as brass PE components, but the advantage of the resin ones is they have a little thickness a slight aerofoil section and I am quite confident in their ability to withstand actually being used. underwater.

Hope that answers some of your sensible questions.

Keep watching.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, PIGBOAT, things are making a lot more sense now.

And I've always been watching, even if I don't always post.

Hi all

The aft diving planes were then installed within the brass frame work. I should have installed the piano wire connecting rods at the same time but didn't. Installing them afterwards was more of a problem and fiddly. I should have thought of that.

The piano wire was bent into a small "S" shaped kink to locate it (and hopefully retain it) in the brass control horn. This is standard practice in other modelling fields and works well. Where it connected to the control arm, along side the aft hull, I opted to solder a very small copper washer onto the end of the wire, after it had been fitted in place. I made the tiny washer by slicing a thin slice off some fine copper tube. This worked well but the piano wire has to be very clean and pre tinned. Again a large soldering iron and speed was essential to stop other components being affected.

I checked that both the rudder and diving planes moved freely. The control rod to the rudder had to be bent slightly to have the best "approach". I did not lubricate them but will add a little oil after the painting stage.

Hi all

One of the last major features to be added to the external detail of the hull are the metal frames which protect the forward diving planes. The mounting points for these had already been cast into the GRP hull.

Interestingly photos show C1 both with and without these frames. The detailing for these on the model was based on the wonderful bow photo of C1 taken whilst she was in dry dock. I have reproduced this again alongside the model

One can only assume that these frames caused a considerable amount of drag in the water, reduced performance and if damaged risked jamming the diving planes. It might be that they were only bolted on when it was thought they were essential?

I decided that they look good, adding extra detail, and afford considerable protection for bow diving planes on this working model. I chose brass wire (1.5mm) to make them, bending each frame to shape around a suitable wooden dowel. Holes to accept the frames were drilled in the hull. The brass frames were then installed and CA glue was allowed to capillary into each hole to secure the components in place. The metal to metal joints were soft soldered. Small crocodile clips held everything in place while the latter two stages were carried out.

The finished frames proved very strong and add considerably to the character of the model.

The last picture shows them in primer paint as I start to prime the hull.

HELP
The pictures of these vessels show the colour scheme as grey above water line, black below with a fine white (off white or pale grey) boot toping. I have not modelled a Royal Navy �grey� vessel before, most of my previous models being in late Victorian/Edwardian colours, so do not have a paint reference for RN grey just before WW1. Can anyone give me a reference, preferably for paint readily available in the UK?

Many thanks.

Hi Steve,

Have you seen this thread?

viewtopic.php?f=69&t=154630

All the best
Sandy

Sandy

Thanks for flagging up this very informative thread. Talk about 50 shades of grey (well I would prefer not to).

This has helped a lot.

Off to buy some grey paint (humbrol 32) .

Now where did I put that airbrush.

Hi all


Strangely the next item to be made was the stand.

Before I could continue with the paint finish on the model, it had to be secured and made level so that the waterline could be drawn in. The easiest way to achieve this is on a level surface with the hull held rock solid.

The stand is made from a nice piece of recycled 19th century mahogany (being a furniture restorer as a day job has hidden advantages). The support pillars are turned from brass and drilled right through before being fixed with epoxy to the base. The top of each pillar has a soft rubber washer glued in place to prevent scratching the model�s paint finish. The two 3.5mm holes on the underside of the model hull are barely visible and will help with getting water either in or out of the free flooding hull section.

Two long stainless M3 bolts were made up, each with over sized wing nut heads. Having these, made removing the model from the stand easy and no tools are required. The wing nuts recess into countersunk pockets on the underside of the stand.

Inside the model hull two shaped and tapped aluminium blocks were glued, also with epoxy. The system works well and the model hull and stand becomes a single unit without having to over tighten the bolts.

This base is going to be handy not just for displaying the model but for holding the lower hull whilst setting/installing up the internal WTC.

Smart move. While trying to draw the waterline on my tug I encountered a problem since the hull was not steady enough. I do have a small stand, but still the hull shifts while I try to draw the waterline around aft and forward.

Just out of curiosity, since you're nearly finished on construction, what is the actual empty weight of the sub?

I've read through all I've missed over the last few months,... wow! working subs are complicated.

I love the rudder and tail planes, they look somewhat Jules Vernish. You've made alot of progress over the summer.

I'll be watching


Mick

Hi Neptune

I have used similar stands with securing bolts for surface vessels too. Obviously the threaded holes on working (wet) models are "stopped" or else water fills the hull. Not a good idea. The holes on the underside of the model are all but invisible. The finished model is well presented and looks like a "static" until it's removed from it's stand at pond side and takes to the water.

Regarding weight, the bare hull, including new brass prop, but without the WTC and working internals, is just shy of 600 grams. I have yet to weigh the model with the WTC installed. I am sure additional sheet lead ballast will need to be installed in the lower hull. This will add stability as well as taking the model down to "surface running" waterline.

I have added a extra picture of the under side of the stand showing the oversized wing nuts recessed into the stand.

Hi Mick

Thanks for watching. Yes the model seems to have moved along quite well this summer. I still have not re decorated the house though!

Hi all

The new correct sized prop arrived. At this point I discovered a problem. The port diving plane connecting rod had been installed incorrectly, inside the fin support, resulting in it fouling the prop. I removed (un-soldered) the connecting rod and re fitted it. End of problem.

The pictures below also show the model with most of the detail fitted and now in primer. It actually now looks like a sub and as Mick said it is kind of Jules Verne (esque).

Looking very, very nice, PIGBOAT! And indeed, there is a most definite sense of the "steampunk" aesthetic about the sub, which you have captured quite well.

Anything else left to do before you start final paint and detailing, other than possible watertight integrity and propulsion test(s)?

Goodwood

There is an amount of rigging and mooring cables/chains to be installed. Plus before I continue with the painting I still have to find the airbrush which has not surfaced in the workshop chaos.

The remaining posts will cover the fitting out of the WTC and all the associated tests. These sub things are a huge gamble based on a lot of hunches. You never know if they are going to work until you drop them in the bath.

Kind of a reflection of the early boats, amirite?

Let me see if I can recall the old American saying regarding the first pigboats we used... "They give us a dollar a dive, and six months' pay if we don't come up."

I simply love turn of the century warships!
Bravo for picking a subject "not so visited".

When you get this close to completion do you find it hard not to rush things?

Mick

Mick

When I was a kid I used to stick my plastic aircraft kits together in a real hurry and then find I had left the pilot or some other major component out

I guess things like this help you learn. Certainly when scratch building you have to think two, three of four stages ahead.

These days I plod along at a steady pace thinking carefully about the procedure for the next stages. That is unless I have a slight burst of speed and end up making a blunder (see the previous hitch with the diving mechanism fouling the prop!).

Hi all


The last few pictures posted (with the model in primer) were mainly for the followers who wanted to see the model�s external detail in its nearly complete state. As the model is painted up in black and dark grey it will be more difficult to pick out the detail particularly, in pictures.

The �great workshop search� located the air brush and the lower hull was sprayed matt black. Next I will be drawing in the water line and reaching for the masking tape.

Very impressive work.

Hi all


The waterline was drawn in by mounting a fine pencil firmly on a suitable block of wood, cut to the correct height. With the model (on its stand) sitting on a smooth flat surface, like a kitchen work surface, the pencil was gently moved past the model touching the pencil tip against the hull in a series of fine dashes. I then masked up to this line with Tamiya 6mm masking tape. This is the first time I have used this stuff and it is very good. Never mind the expense when you get this far into a project! No visible bleed under the edge after spraying matt enamel paint. The upper hull was sprayed dark grey and when this was dry the same process was used to mask out for the fine off white boot topping line which from photos I calculated should be about 3mm.
I have an aversion to intense white on these older models which I have previously explained on this forum.

The colours I used were:-

Humbrol Matt Black Ref 33 (Below waterline).
Humbrol Matt Dark Grey Ref 32 (Above waterline).
Humbrol Matt Camouflage Grey Ref 28 (Boot topping and ID numbers).

The BECC self adhesive numbers were carefully painted before they were applied and the black shadow was added with a fine marker pen.

The completed model was spray finished with satin finish polyurethane varnish. This brings all the paint to the same level of �mattness� if you know what I mean. It also seals the vinyl numbers and protects the whole model as it will be getting wet.

I will post some more close up picture taken in day light as soon as I can.