1/192 HMS DORSETSHIRE Scratchbuild

[Steve Sobieralski]

AR,

May I ask if you have any information on whether Dorsetshire was ever painted in white and buff while on the China Station in 1937-39? My growing suspicion is that she was not. Thanks for any help.

[ar]

Cannot help you with the Pre-war colours.
As for light AA fit during the war, I believe that I went over this a month or two ago.
No changes to the AA fit until the June/July 1941 refit when a single 2pdr pom pom was fitted on the quarterdeck. The ship NEVER carried any 20mm mounts.
Not listed , but very probably fitted with type 286 or 290 radar at the head of the fore topmast.
Colours at the time of loss is unknown to me.

AR,

May I ask if you have any information on whether Dorsetshire was ever painted in white and buff while on the China Station in 1937-39? My growing suspicion is that she was not. Thanks for any help.

[Steve Sobieralski]

As for light AA fit during the war, I believe that I went over this a month or two ago.
No changes to the AA fit until the June/July 1941 refit when a single 2pdr pom pom was fitted on the quarterdeck. The ship NEVER carried any 20mm mounts.

After you originally wrote about this, I received the Dorsetshire as-fitted plans and noticed that they show a twin 20mm mount on the quarterdeck. It was drawn in very lightly and is somewhat difficult to see. Do you think that was what was planned but never carried out, perhaps because of a shortage of 20 mms, and the 2 pdr installed instead? I looked very carefully and could find no other references to AA additions on the plans.

[Laurence Batchelor]

I've put the feelers out about the China Station colours, hopefully someone will know something Steve.

[ar]

The twin 20mm mounting did NOT go to sea until very late 1942.
Cannot explain what you have on the "as fitted". Ignore it, it has no meaning. Stick to the single 2pdr pom pom.

As for light AA fit during the war, I believe that I went over this a month or two ago.
No changes to the AA fit until the June/July 1941 refit when a single 2pdr pom pom was fitted on the quarterdeck. The ship NEVER carried any 20mm mounts.

After you originally wrote about this, I received the Dorsetshire as-fitted plans and noticed that they show a twin 20mm mount on the quarterdeck. It was drawn in very lightly and is somewhat difficult to see. Do you think that was what was planned but never carried out, perhaps because of a shortage of 20 mms, and the 2 pdr installed instead? I looked very carefully and could find no other references to AA additions on the plans.

[Laurence Batchelor]

John Roberts had this to say about your colour scheme Steve:

I could not find anything that would indicate Dorsetshire was painted white with buff funnels - although Norfolk was. Norfolk was serving on the East Indies station at the time whereas Dorsetshire was on the China Station so it is possible that China had stopped using this scheme during the later part of 1930s? I think, but am by no means certain, that the colour scheme may have been dropped in China in the mid 1930s...Dorsetshire was only there during 1935-39".

The only thing I have personally Steve are photos of Kent in this scheme in the late 20s early 30s and ones of Norfolk from 1937on in this scheme.
John has this supposition that it may have been dropped by the time Dorsetshire was out there, but we both do NOT have any solid evidence to back this up!
The only other thing I can think of is if somebody had the time they could go through the Admiralty Fleets Orders (AFOs) for those years to see if it the scheme was still being applied.
Also to go through the ADM53 (ships logs) for this period there could be mentions of when she painted ship for example.
These are available at the National Archives, but would require much digging and are really a non-starter as your over the pound.

Ar do you have any photos of Dorsetshire between 1935-39 please that can clear this up, or do you only have wartime?

[ar]

I have loaned out my photos of the Dorsetshire to a friend, however the ship I believe served on the Africa station for a while after her 1933 refit.
Served as part of the 5CS on the China station after her 1937 large refit.
When my photos are returned I may know more.
Will in the interim try and find some informatio9n for you.

[Steve Sobieralski]

ar/Laurence,

My (humble) opinion is that Dorsetshire was painted overall light gray in while stationed in China 1937-1939 for the following reasons:

1. Photos taken during her visit to Australia in 1938 clearly show her painted overall light gray. Had she been painted white and buff, I believe it is unlikely that her colors would have been changed just for that short visit.

2. The photo Laurence posted of Norfolk in Malta in November 1937 shows her in white and buff with neutrality stripes on B turret. This and a similar photo in Man o'War 1 must have been taken during her transit through the Mediterranean from England to the East Indies after her major refit, meaning the white and buff scheme was probably applied at the shipyard. There is also photo of Dorsetshire in Mo'W 1, showing her after her refit and in neutrality stripes, presumeably taken during her transit and painted in overall gray. If she were to be painted white and buff for China service, one would assume she would have had those colors applied as part of her refit, like Norfolk.

The only indictaion I have that Dorsetshire was painted white and buff at this time is a very nice large scale waterline model of her built by a gentleman named Robert Mouat. The model may, of course, be in error, or she could have worn that scheme for some short period while in China. The few pictures I have of her 1935-37 China cruise all appear to show her in an overal light gray scheme as well, so perhaps she never wore a white and buff scheme at all.

I have all but reached the decision to paint the model as the ship appeared during her visit to Australia in 1938, overall Mediterranean Light Gray (AP507C) with air recognition Union Jacks on the roofs of B and X turrets. The two-tone Bismarck action scheme holds some interest, but there were apparently some minor modifications made to the ship, prior to May, 1941, for which I have no documentation.

Thank you both for your help and interest.

[Laurence Batchelor]

I also have these photos of Norfolk Steve which might help.
These are slightly better in that a few are dated!

'HMS Norfolk 27.10.37 Devonport after a refit'


HMS Norfolk in Valletta 16-11-1937

HMS Norfolk in Valletta June 1937





HMS Norfolk 1937




P.S. I also have 1 photo of what appears to be Berwick in this scheme also.

[Steve Sobieralski]

Excellent photos as always Laurence!

The first one seems to confirm that Norfolk left the yard painted in her Far East color scheme after the '37 refit. Many of them, basically the ones without a Walrus on the catapult, were taken prior to '37. She certainly seems to have gotten more photo coverage than Dorsetshire, almost makes me wish I had done her instead.

[Laurence Batchelor]

I see the NMM has around 32 pre-war photos of Norfolk and 31 of Dorsetshire.
If your feeling flush you could remedy the situation, though they ask �15/$30 per copy!

[Laurence Batchelor]

This maybe of some further help to you also:

HMS London at Venice August 1937

[Jimmy Conway]

[quote="Steve Sobieralski"]Things have slowed down a bit on the build for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is the pesky day job, but also because I�m starting to add detailing to some of the previously...



STEVE, it is a wonderful work.....congratulations!!!

Jimmy

[Steve Sobieralski]

I've been working on the bridge and forward superstructure area, adding some detail such as hand rails along the bulkheads, rigols at the scuttles, doors, hatches, framing, etc. The bridge structures of the Counties seem to have been in a constant state of development as the various ships and sub-classes were built and although all had similar features there were several variations. The Dorsetshire's and Norfolk's bridge structures were unique to them and, as they were the last ships built, could be considered the final development for this class.

The most time consuming work has been the columns and X-bracing which support the bridge wings. These have to be carefully aligned to appear to be continuous through the deck and are very delicate. There are two signalling platforms cantilevered off the framing which are slightly elevated above the lower bridge wings. Apparently the crew had to crawl through the columns and braces and haul themselves up to reach these platforms as there are no steps or ladders indicated on any of the plans I have. Exactly what the advantage of slightly raising them was seen to be I am not quite sure.

One thing that slightly complicates the construction is building assemblies so that they can be taken apart for painting. The photo below shows the bridge broken down into various sub-assemblies for this purpose. Some of the deck beams and bracing can be seen. The numerous lightening holes seen in the beams and braces are evidence of the designer's concern for the ship's displacement and keeping at or under the 10,000 ton Washington Treaty limits.

Finally, some shots of the bridge set temporarily in place on the model. The angular square tubing at the bridge front is W/T ducting which carries antenna wire from the mast to below decks.

Once again I would like to thank everyone for their kind comments and especially Laurence for his wonderful photos.

[Dave Wooley]

Once again Steve a magnificent Job and to Laurence superb pictures .
Excellent subject
Dave Wooley

[Dino Carancini]

Superb!

[Laurence Batchelor]

Thank you Steve for keeping us updated.
This is becoming more stunning with every single sub-assembly you scratch
As and when more photos appear I'll add them in if I think they might help.

[J. Soca]

Nicely done !!!

[Jefgte]

Superb bridge.

Congrats for the high quality of your work





Jef

[Reid]

WOW that is incredable. great job!!