NORMANDIE in 1/700 scale - a non-grey fleet ship !

[marijn van gils]

My hat off to your perseverance Jim!

Passion can sometimes cause some frustrations, but the results are worth it, no?

[JIM BAUMANN]

Thank you again for encouragement-- -- nearly there...!

Masts... I had previously made these of brass

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=168156&start=260#p910484

The rake of the masts was a little bit of a conundrum

the mast rake matches neither the fwd or aft angle of the funnels (!)

alas just ' stick them in at the right angle was not as simple as I thought

I assumed that the aft mast rake would 'kind of follow the funnle--
not so by a long way

herewith overlays of the plans on my model

fwd was pretty good-

- aft was a catastrophe-- wrong rake and too tall !

Intriguingly... I suspected the aft rake angle was different to the fwd rake angle...(?!!)
I rotated the plan excerpt until I had a level baseline and 90 degree tangents parallel to the masts
and indeed the rakes differ...(??!)

In the end.... after some fiddling It did all look pretty ok ( I may still need to tweak the aft mast rake a little more...)

Overall the ship model is starting to look much like the real thing from most angles

some of the copious life-rings can be seen here, both on rails and on the stands

and some of the final little bits are now installed ---

Next steps will be a few more passengers, a bit of paint tidy up and then rigging and final sea varnish

More soon!

JIM B

[wefalck]

Isn't it fairly common that the rake of masts and funnels increases towards the stern ? It reenforces the impression of speed and dynamism that is conveyed by the rake as such.

[JIM BAUMANN]

>>>>> Isn't it fairly common that the rake of masts and funnels increases towards the stern ? <<<<

>>>>> It reenforces the impression of speed and dynamism that is conveyed by the rake as such. <<<<

Indeed that so--but according to the plan ( which I believe to be pretty reputable)

it suggests --according to my level baseline and 2 x 90 degrees that the aft mast is actually STEEPER than the fwd mast???!!
its only a degree or two ...

EH..!! ?!"

I must confess I have NOT followed that exactly--as parallel to fwd looked more harmonious to my ye
but....

though the angle can still be tweaked still before rigging....


that said--things happened on Normandies masts I have never seen on another ship....

[wefalck]

In-flight entertainement ? These ships had various artists on board to keep the passengers entertained. Or a circus/variet� artist was travelling from one engagement to another and did a bit of practicing en route.

[Iceman 29]

@Jim

I have been following closely the assembly of your "Normandie".

I am particularly attached to this ship, she is very elegant, the most aesthetically successful liner built in " Les Chantiers de l'Atlantique" in Saint Nazaire, France, in my humble opinion, less at the technical level, she vibrated a lot ...

And also because my grandfather was on board during the last voyage to New York as an engineer, he returned to France after his relief on October 20, 1939 on board the De Grasse of the same company.

He was also present on board the liner "Paris" of the same company during a probable criminal action in Le Havre when it was alongside the quay. The ship capsized in the same way as the Normandy to New York, a premonition of those dark years...
But that's another story.





















In my grandfather's seaman's book, the bible of each seaman (like me), we can see that he embarked on Normandy (listed ship n�743 in the French maritime affair) on July 25, 1939, probably as a master engineer. The ship will leave for her last voyage on August 23rd 1939 from Le Havre to N-Y. My grandfather will be relieved on October 20th 1939.






In 1932, Marin-Marie, the official Painter of the Navy, redesigned the chimneys of Normandy.
Three chimneys surmounted the whole. Originally, they must have been of the normal type (cylindrical). Marin-Marie, when he had to draw a view of the future liner, he insisted and drew three chimneys with a drop-shaped section. The third chimney was dummy and housed the kennel.

http://www.marin-marie.info/biographie.html

I found this document probably showing the American project to transform the Normandy renamed USS Lafayette into an aircraft carrier and troop ship, the project was not retained:

Wiki:
"August 1939 saw the shadow of the Second World War approaching; the Transat decided to reduce the speed of the Normandy so that it would have enough fuel to turn back if war was declared during a crossing. The one that began on 9 August marked a final moment of glory: the director Yves Mirande shot his film Paris-New York with the actor Michel Simon73 on board. After a new crossing to France, Normandy began its last voyage on 23 August in a very tense international climate. The German-Soviet pact has just been signed and the conflict seems inevitable. On the way, the liner tries to sow the Bremen for fear of being signalled to the U-boats. For the rest of the crossing, the lights on the bridge are cut, the curtains are closed and radio traffic stops in order to make the ship undetectable74.

With the declaration of war on 3 September, there was no longer any question of Normandy crossing the Atlantic at the mercy of enemy submarines75. On 6 September, the ship was disarmed. On the 8th, a large part of the crew (mainly hotel staff) was repatriated to France. The rest of the men prepared the ship for its immobilisation, in order to preserve furniture and machinery76.

Requisition by the United States

The name of the Marquis de La Fayette was given to Normandy when it was seized to pay tribute to the aid that France had given to the United States during the American War of Independence.

For the crew stationed in the United States, life was organised as best it could: with the arrival of winter, the company provided them with some warm clothing, and the sailors tried to keep in touch with their families. However, with the defeat of June 1940, this link tended to disappear. Moreover, on 5 June, �tienne Payen de la Garanderie returned to France, leaving the command to Herv� Le Hu�d�, who had served on board for several years.

As his entry into the conflict seemed to be approaching, the American government began to consider requisitioning Normandy as a troop transport.

With the establishment of the Vichy regime, the risks of sabotage increased for the ship: a French government loyalist could try to remove the ship from the American war effort. On 11 April 1941, the takeover of the liner was voted by the United States Congress. A detachment of Coast Guards embarked to monitor the actions of each French crew member to prevent any sabotage. More men are called after the attack on Pearl Harbor, and on December 11th, the United States takes possession of Normandy under the right of anguish. The French crew landed except for the officers and five other members. However, the protests of Commander Le Hu�d� prevented the Americans from lowering the French flag, and the crew members on departure sang La Marseillaise, according to the commander's account.

The new owners of the ship still had to tame it: plans were circulating among the Coast Guards, who were learning how the ship worked, while the chief engineer helped translate the many inscriptions into French. There is also the question of how to use the ship: while at first glance it may seem natural to use it as a troop transport, it is not so natural to use it as an ocean liner.

A picture took by my grand father, from may be the Liner "Paris" in New York, not Le Havre as writed on the back of the picture, during its maneuver.





The US aircraft carrier project for "Normandie":



The end.

[Pieter]

Thanks for these pictures Iceman. If you ever want to build your granddads other famous ship, Paris, plans for her in non-capsized state can be found on the solid model memories website.

[Iceman 29]

Thank Pieter!

[JIM BAUMANN]

Dear Iceman!

what a great set of images , and documents of yur family history--truly a personal link the the grand ship.

Thank you very much indeed for sharing these with us --much appreciated!

Meanwhile-- I am getting ready to rig! ( BENCH HAS BEEN CLEARED ! )

I have a few more figures to add -among many -...
-a gaggle of young schoolgirls... my 14 yr old daughter and her friend-group,

suitably attired in their school uniforms- grey skirt, dark stockings, green blazer, white blouse and if I can manage--straw-boater hats
- -" they embarked at Southampton, heading to the USA to spend the summer with the american girl of the group...

( my daughters fantasy --this is based on Enid Blytons series of girls boarding school stories 'Mallory Towers'
recently filmed as a series by the BBC..... )

I added a couple of additional small details...

most interesting of which is this;
Normandies fwd flagpole was telescopic and would be lowered when at sea--there was a hinged flap in the deck to allow it to be raised.

I cut the ( closed )lid from a piece of white decal sheet

The aft flagstaff has been installed, ( it still needs to be rigged--as it is very tall! )

as can be seen here;

below it -in the centre -outboard of the railing was a substantial aft lantern

and so on to the rigging!

I shall report in soon!

JIM B

[Chlo� Plattner]

What a wonderful thread following Jims master- master class of modelling this outstanding liner. Regarding this huge amount of detail is breathtaking.
I also love to see these very interesting pics and stories posted in this thread. Everything is just a delight

[MartinJQuinn]

I have a few more figures to add -among many -...
-a gaggle of young schoolgirls... my 14 yr old daughter and her friend-group,

suitably attired in their school uniforms- grey skirt, dark stockings, green blazer, white blouse and if I can manage--straw-boater hats
- -" they embarked at Southampton, heading to the USA to spend the summer with the american girl of the group...

That brought a smile to my face. What a cool idea.

[JIM BAUMANN]

Good evening all...

I have been adding a few figures and cleaning off dust etc--
but otherwise the ship is in her glass -case awaiting being rigged.

The problem is ...that in this instance I want to make the standing rigging using some very thin wire,
as the rigging take-off positions at deck-level on Normandie are VERY visible-
- as such not suited to my usual methods of stretched sprue rigging. I will use Strteched sprue fpor
halyards and fore and aft antenna...

procrastination..? actually ... No !

I ordered some 'modellkasten' Rigging wire ( Ninitol )-in the extra fine size of 0.047 mm

( - from Japan -- on 02 December )

tediously- almost a month later... it has still not arrived...
The vendor has checked up at his end-- and it is--allegedly =--currently stuck as below

'... When I contacted the person in charge of JP, it seems that Item waiting for a tariff check at LANGLEY HWDC.....'

what is LANGLEY HWDC....?

hence... no movement yet to actual finishing !!

will update !

JIM B

[EJFoeth]

My shipment of century-old original photographs of the missus were held for a full month in some depot with track&trace having lost the shipment; but it arrived... a few days ago...

[Timmy C]

I googled Langley HWDC for you and the good news is that it's on the same island as you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heathrow_ ... ion_Centre

[Martocticvs]

I've had that once before a few years ago - you should get a note from Parcel Force or similar with a demand for the customs payment that's due. Then it will be released for them to deliver to you.

Rereading - awaiting a check probably means it's just caught up in the backlog and hasn't been processed yet. It might not incur any customs charge, but I believe every item that comes into the country by air gets inspected. In the past (from tomorrow, who knows?!) things coming in by road or sea usually slipped by unnoticed.

[Christian Bruer]

Hello Jim,

what a wonderful project, well described in any detail with a lot of extra information about the history of one of the most attractive Ocean Liners.

[modellmariner]

Looks very good, Jim!

[JIM BAUMANN]

Hello all-

after a prolonged absence of any tangible progress on this model

( due to waiting a short(!) 2 months for the 0.047 mm ' Modellkasten' nitinol rigging wire from Japan to arrive,...
I hasten to add .....

the delay being NOT at the vendor / shipper--

but partly attributable to Covid 19, ( it sat in a depot in Tokyo for a few weeks, then sat in limbo for a few weeks
and eventually sat at Heathrow for a few weeks.


The Modelkasten wire is Nitinol... interesting ( expensive! ) stuff, an alloy of Nickel and Titanium

quote from the net;

Nitinol is a metal alloy of nickel and titanium with unique properties,
including supe-relasticity or pseudo-elasticity and �shape memory� properties.
That means Nitinol can remember its original shape and return to it when heated.

more here ;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_titanium
=====================================================================================================

For our our modelship-making rigging purposes it means that although it arrives in the post with us in a small diameter roll,
when released it straightens out again. ( Bizarre! ) = shape memory

It is also very strong and stiff pro-rata for its diminutive diameter ,
and is quite hard to cut --I use baby Fiskar scissors, which cut in a crisp shearing motion,
more successfully I found than scalpel and Stanley blades.

Its main advantage is that for the use in for example Funnel stays, it can be 'propped' up,
and is very resistant to kinking whilst handling.

However... I can stretch 'Sprue' easily and reliably - to about half of the Nitinol wire, useful for halyards
and antenna.

I took the time to regroup my thoughts and energy on the Normandie project,
and during the down time also built and completed a scratch-built 1/350 steam tug boat

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=314432

But meanwhile -- back to the main course!�

Having practised with the Nitinol ( Nickel Titanum ) wire on the Tug, I was armed and prepared to get cracking on the Normandie rigging of the two masts



I always wanted to use stretched sprue for the halyards and ariels- ;



although the MK wire at 0.047 mm is pretty skinny by any standards...
it still can be thinner and finer.!

So the plan was to use the wire for the standing rigging only along with the (minimal ) crane rigging fwd

and my familiar tried and tested method of stretched sprue

the methodology of which is still unchanged
my step by step of how ..-for those interested ..-- is here at MW.com
link

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37536

The standing rigging of the foremast was was first.

Some people like the metallic grey colour of the wire, my view is that ALL rigging looks back against the sky.


I colour it black --without paint build up -- using a 'Pentel' Permanent markers,
drawing the pen along the wire ( secured with tape at one end) on a piece of Kitchen towel--
==> the paper towel soaks up the excess ink and transfers it to the' underside' .

( warning--don't use Sharpie pens for this--they bleed with adhesive, thinners and / or varnish)
==========================================================================================

So as to be able to gauge the EXACT longitudinal dimensions of each piece of wire,

I used a thicker " measuring " wire .
Once it had been offered up and test-fitted by snipping to size it was then
the 'template' for cutting the EXPENSIVE Nitinol wire

(( ==> ( � 25,oo for 5 metres ! ) ))

The ship being a fast liner -- there is a fair amount of cable to be rigged.
( alas a 'soft' photo image--shot though the glass case)

followed by the aft mast

it all was looking a bit stark--but the thickness is about right--as the wire cable holding those tall masts up were quite chunky!

The insulators were done with gentle application of paint on a thin brush--in situ

I added the 'suggestion' of the turn-buckles at the lower ends with some paint-

==> its an ongoing process-- adding a thin layer a day.

then back to familiar territory-- rigging some of the sprue portions

so now its onwards with some more halyards, then French tricolour to fly from the aft gaff , some more antenna fwd and aft
and then the bigger challenge...
spanning the fore and aft antenna cables-- spanning from foremast upper yard-arm via centre funnel spreader back to aft mast yard arm

I also needs to be very thin, barely noticeable....

even in 1/700 that is quite a span!

--- will report in how that goes..!


below image of the real thing!

JIM B

[Iceman 29]

It's a great job, Jim.

Do you have the link to this miracle product?

The rigging is as good as the work you've already done.

[MartinJQuinn]

Beautiful work on the rigging. It looks fantastic.