Calling all French Pre-Dreadnought fans

[Yevgeniy]

Beautiful, Jim!

Carnot is also my favourite ship (after Dupuy of course ) so it is a great topic to watch. May me you start a separate thread for this build?

I also did not manage to find any drawings for Carnot but hope that at the moment I start it there will be definitely some available.

Yevgeniy

[JIM BAUMANN]

re Cuirasse CARNOT

this now has a dedicated thread here...

viewtopic.php?f=47&t=47836

see you all there!

JIM B

[Caravellarella]

Look!, Just published, a L�la Presse title on I�na and Suffren......

http://www.avions-bateaux.com/en/catalo ... _1244.html

Terry (Caravellarella)

[Suvoroff]

Hello, this is my first post here.

I'm working on a poster (four-view) of Jaureguiberry, from the plans formerly posted on the French Navy site. One detail that's not clear, however, is French deck coverings. Apparenly the lower weather decks are planked, but how about the upper decks, like the bridge deck? If not wood, are they painted, or linoleum? If painted, what color?

Thanks in advance.

Yours,
James D. Gray

[newshipmodeler]

I just received my Henri IV combrig kit. (thanks Freetime..it's been a crazy weekend here on the east coast.)
I have found lots of data except for color. Are the upper areas leaning towards light gray or more towards a vanilla or cream color? Even Jim's astonishing dio leaves me with questions. The deck on the dio is a redish brown like linolium color. Is that just a color to simulate a redish brown wood?

[DariusP]

newshipmodeler - No. Redish brown (very similar to the colour of the decks of modern Russian warships) is a color of the lino used on the Freach warships of the period.

Suvorov - all French pre-dreads up to Charlemagne class (and Jena & Suffren afterwards) were one-off designs and so there is no rule of thumb about covering of their decks, flying decks and platforms. On some ships they were planked, on others covered in lino and on others there was a mixture of both. Every ship needs to be looked at individually to discover what deck's covering was used on this particular unit.
It's quite tricky actually. Helpfull photographs are difficult to come by and "builder's models" are of limited value.

[JIM BAUMANN]

Suvoroff....

If you need some higher res pics of Jaureguiberry for your project -- drop me an e-mail


--some of the French pre-dreads had their decks covered with lino by WW1-- the on -deck photo of Jaureguiberry below is from a contemporary magazine during the Dardanelles campaign

The later ships it seems were all built with either steel or lino decks- and some of the earlier ships had a mish-mash thereof

As Darius says--no rule of thumb-- you need photos...


Jaureguiberry -- The main deck was planked.- seems like throughout her career

I reckon the aft deck was also planked-see photo excepts below--and I would conclude that the foredeck was also planked-
she was a contemporary of Massena - and my research for that model
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

suggested that the anchor handling and aft warping deck on that ship were steel-
- however the photo of Jaureguiberry below.....
the similar tonal values in the photo of main and aft decks and the faint lines would lead me to conclude that the
aft deck was also wood--alomg with the deck atop the aft superstructure ( whet the ligt QF guns are mounted)

[newshipmodeler]

Jim I'm trying to go by the color on your diorama. Photo/lighting can be deceiving. Did you paint the upper areas including that last row of windows a light grey or is that more of a light vanilla color?
thanks!

[JIM BAUMANN]

Hello newship modeleller


the upper row is all light grey-- just a trick of the light...

Apart from the wooden decks-which sadly are incorrect--here is a another fine model of Henri IV

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html


JIM B

[Tom L.]

Omigosh!

Look at that ornamental railing on Jaureguiberry!

You expect some elaboration on sternwalks from ships of the period, but there's a touch of art nouveau flair even to the deck support ironwork...how is it there isn't more enthusiasm for these ships again?

[cerberusjf]

I thought "Charles Martel" fans here might find this interesting..

http://www.musee-marine.fr/public/virtu ... index.html

I'm not sure how long it will last, it is the "oeuvre du mois" so not long I guess..

[DariusP]

That's why I love pre-dreads Tom. They were "machines of war" yet still almost a work of art.

[cerberusjf]

Hi Suvoroff..
I checked one of my Jaureguibbery photos and the anchor-handling deck (by that I mean the deck at the bow in front of the breakwater ) is in fact planked too.. Or at least the small portion visible marked in red definitely is.

[Suvoroff]

Hey, I just found the plans posted on the Tsushima site for Jaureguiberry. They are quite detailed. Hmmm...they have "feel" of the drawings you get in Russian modelling magazines like Modellist-Konstructor, and I suspect they are based directly on the FCM plans, with added detail...but the way the hull plating runs into what is apparently a gargantuan and monolithic ram casting is suspicious.

Has anyone who has seen this drawing any comment on their accuracy?

Yours,
James D. Gray

[Suvoroff]

Cerberus;

Thanks. The FCM plans which show cross-sections seem to show planking on all the lower decks, but the upper decks are not so clear.

Yours,
James D. Gray

[JIM BAUMANN]

James Suvoroff-Gray...--welcome to MW.com as a registered user/addict!


--I assume you saw my previous posting on the previous page...--never mind the plans...--look at the pic below and in the previous post--main deck is planked....



and also this cross-sectional drawing--in close up shows planks( by my interpretation)

[DariusP]

...but the way the hull plating runs into what is apparently a gargantuan and monolithic ram casting is suspicious.

Has anyone who has seen this drawing any comment on their accuracy?

I haven't done detailed checking between FCM and drawing on Tsushima site but outlines of the stem and ram look correct and, above waterline, details of the bow area do match FCM's. Since FCM plans don't include hull planting, I can't confirm this particular detail.

And just a word of warning: drawings of the ships in FCM plans depict them "as projected" and not "as build" so, while main outlines should be mostly correct, photos are still needed to confirm details.

[Egberth]

First of all: nice to see so much people interested in the esthetically most satisfying navy.

but the way the hull plating runs into what is apparently a gargantuan and monolithic ram casting is suspicious.

Hmmm, I don't think that the whole bow was a monolithic casting. Normally only the tip of the bow was cast and made to shear off after a succesful (in reality it would be rather accidental) ramming. The disappearance of the plating-rows may be the result of a differnt plating at the bow. Normally the whole underwater-hull would be plated with adjacent and off-lying rows by turns, thus the offlying rows lay with the top and bottom edge on the adjacent row and were bolted there, but sometimes for esthetical or nautical reasons parts of the hull was plated with adjoining rows connected by a narrow steel-flap on the inside, so the hull looked plain (there are examples of ships plated all over in this manner, f.e. the Mass�na). In this case I would guess that the bow would be planked with adjoining rows to get better performance in the water and maybe the one knot more.


Dirk

[Egberth]

Since FCM plans don't include hull planting, I can't confirm this particular detail.

If FCM means the plans from servicehistorique than these show the platings although only in the cross-section drawings.

Dirk

[newshipmodeler]

Here is an example of how I have been opening the windows on the new Bouvet model.
Drill an oversize hole
stuff it full of epoxie clay
stab it with a rectangular piece of wet plastic so it doesn't stick
let it dry then sand off the overflow caused by stabbing it.
I did 18 in about 1-1/2 hours and then another half hour sanding after the putty dried.
I sprayed a touch of gray to show the effect.

I can now go back with a ruler and touch them up (this was just freehand and the putty is softer than resin) although I suspect perfect lining up/gluing of the upper and lower hatches might be more impotant than the perfect height holes. This is not really ready to show except I wanted to give an example of my post on another thread. Consider this "roughed in".