New to 3D modeling

[CSGN138]

Hi y'all. I've been wanting to Build stuff in 3D since the first time I played "PHM pegasus" in 1987 (or somewhere right around there). Any recomendadtions for a newbee? I looked at blender about a year ago an it seems a little complicated. I have a bunch of ideas for projects. Ive been making ships with paint for about two years now. This is my latest



I really want to make a model of this ship in 1/350. I want to build in in 3D also so i can "explore" it more.

Any good easy to use, and free programs i should try out?

Thanks
Joe

[DrPR]

'138,

First you should decide just what you want to do in 3D. There are two general types of programs for 3D design:

1. CAD programs are for precision design. They have lots of tools that are used for design for manufacturing. You can (learn to) model anything with them. They can be used to create dimensioned 2D and 3D drawings for use in modeling. However, they all have limited rendering capabilities so they aren't used to make pretty pictures with mirror reflections, etc.

For examples of ship design with 3D CAD see:

http://www.okieboat.com/CAD%20model.html

2. Rendering programs. You can also design just about anything with these programs, but they usually do not have as complete a set of drawing tools. However, they have a far better set of rendering tools. Blender is one of these programs, and apparently a pretty good one. There are numerous examples of Blender images in the Virtual Modeling section of this forum.

****

None of these programs are simple and easy to use, especialy for the novice. There are hundreds of functions to learn, and that takes time.

3D design is in itself difficult for some people to learn, no matter what program they use. For others it is easy. You will have to determine that for yourself.

****

Program cost is not an indicator of program quality or ease of use. Many companys spend more time and expense hyping their software than they do developing it.

I crank out my CAD models with DesignCAD 3D Max, a $80 program. It is very easy to use and has an excellent free user forum. I have several friends who use Solid Works - a $15,000 package. They are constantly having problems doing things that are trivial in DesignCAD and they have to pay an arm and a leg for tech support. But they do have better manufacturing features.

From what I have seen on this forum Blender - $0 - is a very capable rendering program. Of course you can pay hundreds or thousands for other programs, but can they produce a better end result for you?

There is a "which CAD software to buy" thread in the Virtual Shipmodeling forum. Look through it for more information:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=42010

Phil

[CSGN138]

Thank you Phil. I think Ill get blender again, and just dive in. Probably take a while to learn it but worth it in the end. Thats how i learned paint. it took awhile but i like my results.

[cope]

I haven't done much ship modeling in Blender but I have done quite a bit with it and I can vouch for the community on it. Since it is free there is a huge community backing (apparently a lot of people like the price tag) and you can find tutorials on most anything you want to accomplish. Youtube is a great source for video tutorials and there is a mass amount of information on various forums. There is a steep learning curve, but it is a very powerful program once you learn the features.

[tea monster]

I know from experience that Blender can do the job.

If you don't like Blender, there are a number of alternatives, free and otherwise.
The big problem with Blender at the moment is that the modelling tools are behind the times. This has recently (like last week ) been addressed with the addition of a new mesh system, but it's early days and things are still being developed. It's strength is that it is very versatile, and once you learn the workflow, it's very fast to get stuff done. Blender also has the 'Cycles' pathtracer and there are plugins for VRay, Octane, Indigo, Yafaray and LuxRender.

Daz has made Hexagon a free download:
http://www.daz3d.com/i/products/hexagon

Wings3d is a great little modeller, it has a good modelling toolset, but I think that is about all it has! I don't know how good it is at large scenes. I know there is a version of Yafaray (FOSS raytracer) that will work with it. People tend to model with Wings3D and export elsewhere for rendering.
http://www.wings3d.com

There are a variety of different rendering studios that work like a 'photography studio' So if you like to model in one app, you can export your mesh into one of these apps and do your rendering there.

Owen

EDIT: I nearly forgot about Silo, which is an amazing modeller. It's only 159 bucks as well.

http://www.nevercenter.com/silo/

[Guest]

Believe me, Blender is not as diificult to understand as it seems to be. When you finally get familiar with the �Key-logy� you are going to feel lack of them in another software. However, I agree that the way how to learn Blender sometimes resembles a rule: �Per aspera ad astra�

[CSGN138]

I thank you all fo your advice. I think for now Im going to dve into blender. I was wondering on my picture, will this ship be extremly complicated for a beginner? should i just do sections an pieces,like say, the mast? if you do that is it easy to "join" all the pieces together? scheesch... so many questions...

Thanks for the help. you guys are great

[lothar79]

If this is going to be your first model, I STRONGLY SUGGEST to try with the small boat visible in foreground. Otherwise, in case of troubles you are going too quit the project definitely... Believe me, modelling such a tiny vessel can also give you much fun and be very challenging.

Good luck!

[CSGN138]

ok, ill give that a shot. i appreciate the advice

[Roscoe]

Here's a simple boat hull tutorial that I used to help me learn Blender. It covers the basics pretty well, and although it's version 2.49 and the interface is somewhat different, it easy enough to follow along.
Good luck, and like others have said, there's a ton of tutorials on YouTube and the plethora of Blender sites.

http://youtu.be/aWoB5x6VPkc?hd=1

Have fun,
Dean

[waterline]

Hi all,
I'm in the same boat so to speak. Have only just downloaded Blender 2.6, now what ? I want to create a very basic steamer hull. Are there any models available that I could add to ?
cheers

[lothar79]

Try to browse this site: http://www.military-meshes.com/forums/f ... y.php?f=21
For sure you will find some interesting tips over there. Try also youtube.com and "uncle" Google
BTW: have you ever built anythig using 3D software? If not, forget your steamer "for a while". Try some basics following the tutorials.

Cheers

PS. The first hull I have ever made resembled a rusty slice of bread

[tea monster]

Try this:
http://cgcookie.com/blender/

and the basic 'getting started' section is here:
http://cgcookie.com/blender/get-started-with-blender/

[Guest]

Tea Monster,
many thanks for the link, exactly what I need.
cheers all for your help.

[MareNostrum]

I've been following the threads on the different CAD programs and finding the discussions helpful, but one thing that concerns me is the learning curve. As I'm one who learns better in the formal classroom setting than by self-teaching when it comes to something rather involved such as CAD programming, I've found that the nearby community college offers an intro to AutoCAD ("This course is a first course in computer aided drafting including an introduction to AutoCAD, drawing, editing drawings, applications, using advanced functions, producing hard copy and customizing AutoCAD. The emphasis of this course is in developing drafting techniques using the computer as the drafting tool. Specific topics include system set up, 2-D drawing, editing drawings, multi-view, drawing, orthographic views, dimensioning, sectional views, and graphic patterns").

My question is this: would a course in AutoCAD provide a good universal basis to use just about any of the programs mentioned in this forum (e.g., Blender, DesignCAD, ModelCAD, etc.) that some seem to find particularly suitable for their modeling, or is training in AutoCAD more program-specific? In other words, if you learn how to drive one car with a manual transmission, you can pretty much drive any other car with one (the shift patterns may vary a bit), so does the same apply here? Your thoughts appreciated.

[Cadman]

AutoCAD is still the industry standard. There are many differences in it and Solidworks and the other competitors. But the concepts are the same.

[DrPR]

There are three basic types of 3D CAD programs:

Type 1. Basic 2D/3D CAD programs. You create things like in a machine shop. When you drill a hole it is done and you can't change it. You can also construct solids surface by surface and then combine them to create a solid. Once created the surfaces no longer exist as separate entities. This is the way AutoCAD and DesignCAD work. They are more for creating precision designs with basic 3D images, 2D drawings of 3D objects, NC machine control and 3D Stereolith. They have limited rendering capability - just enough to allow you to visualize the design with basic options like shadows and multiple lights.

These programs have a complete 2D drawing set, and have a "paper space" mode that generates 2D images from 3D designs. This is useful when you need a paper drawing of the 3D design.

You can get add-on packages or export designs to high level rendering packages, but it isn't a simple process. The more expensive programs have fairly complete rendering features built in, but they are not as complete as the Type 3 programs mentioned below.

The AutoCAD course should be a good introduction to this type of program.

Type 2. Parametric programs are very different critters. Virtually everything is dynamic. After you have created a hole you can change the radius and the program regenerates it. Virtual "solids" can be constructed from intersecting surfaces, and if you change the surfaces the solids change. These programs are very useful for designs that will change over and over. It is much easier to rework an existing design than in the type 1 programs.

I'm not sure how well the AutoCAD course would be as an introduction to parametric design.

Type 3. The third type of 3D program is more of an illustration program for creating pretty pictures. These have high level rendering capability using ray tracing and other algorithms for creating reflections and such. They have pretty limited capabilities for engineering design (NC machine control, 2D drawing, etc.) but many can generate 3D stereolith files (STL) for 3D printers. Blender and Rhino are examples.

****

No one program has every feature found in all programs. You need to decide what you want to do and pick a program that will do it.

No two programs have the same feature set or even similar user interfaces, so the AutoCAD course will not solve the problem of having to learn an entire new way to operate the program if you end up using something other than AutoCAD.

Some people use a basic CAD program like DesignCAD or AutoCAd to create a 3D design and then export the design to a rendering program to generate realistic images.

Finally, 3D design is very different from 2D design. If the autoCAD course is just an introduction to the program for 2D drafting, with little emphasis on 3D design, it won't help you much for learning 3D design.

The best way to learn is by doing, and no one but you can teach you this.

Phil

[Roscoe]

Phil makes a good point, every program is somewhat different, but the type 1 programs like he mentioned, will have similar functions when it comes to drawing lines, circles, arcs etc., that's where that training will come in handy.

The Solid modeling/parametric programs still use those same principles (lines, arcs, etc.) to make the solid bodies, but with extra features to link those items and/or solids so that by changing one dimension, it'll change other features of the part or assembly along with it. It can get very deep and sometimes frustrating when it comes to using those type of functions, you need to plan carefully. And they usually have a decent rendering program included.

Now with Blender, Silo, Truespace, etc., these programs are geared towards freeform 3D modeling, more for making it look right, not necessarily correct dimension wise. It can be done, but it's more like tweaking vertices, edges and surfaces to get the shape you want. There is much more to it than that of course, and there are more options when it comes to rendering.

So depending on what you want to do, I would look into the type of program that suites your desired outcome and start there.

And Phil, Rhino should be in the Type 1 list.

Good luck,
Dean

[rtwpsom2]

Just a note to chime in from a diehard SolidWorks user, Solidworks has released a free program called Draftsight which is a clone of AutoCAD 2004(ish). All the commands and tools from ACAD '04 work the same in Draftsight and it saves in native dwg formats from r12 to r2010. It will also open all existing versions of dwg files. The main reason that I like it so much (besides the free part) was because I thought 2004 was the best version of AutoCAD. It was the easiest to use and customize, had the most functionality, and was pretty fast. It also introduced me to 3D with it's limited 3D and rendering functionality. Ask Tim what I was able to do with that. If anyone wants to do 2D and basic 3D I would encourage you to go to http://www.3ds.com/products/draftsight/overview/ and download it. It's only 76 mb's and works on a lot of older computers.

[MareNostrum]

Many thanks for all your replies and suggestions, sure is a wealth of information in all that. Let me pass on why I'm interested in these programs: there are model subjects, both ships and aircraft, that most likely will never be kitted, or for which not especially good plans exist, if they exist at all, which means scratchbuilding them will have to be the way to go if I want a model. When I say plans are not especially good, by that I mean generally the length and width dimensions are provided in side views and top/bottom views, but cross-sections for either bulkheads or frames can be quite sparse, leaving a lot of guesswork to extrapolate (or is that "interpolate"?) what the missing sections would look like. I figure that an AutoCAD-like program would allow for accurate calculation and depiction of what those missing frames would look like, and I can then be off and running.

In a somewhat related way, I am guessing that AutoCAD and its kin would allow one to scan a photograph of a subject for which there may only be the most basic of dimensions available, but by plugging those in, and then translating certain coordinate points from the photograph into the software, one can then follow contours and get other dimensions, again from which to lay out a good working plan to scratchbuild the model. This would be somewhat like working off a set of incomplete plans, only one or two steps back, having an image but then relying on the software to do the number crunching to give final dimensions, shapes, and to maintain proportions, better than "eyeballing" it.