KGV Class disruptive pattern camouflage.

[Redwhiteandblue]

After a number of years away from modelling i have caught the bug again and would like to build all KGV 1/350 scale battleships. I am not an expert far from it, just an enthusiastic modeller and what i lack in technical knowledge i do attempt to makeup, by producing a model as accurate as i can, so i am hoping you guys may help point me in the right direction regarding this subject.
My intention is to use wem photo etch and paints plus wooden decks all on order via wem yes i will need a bank loan to complete all these builds The problem i have is lack of accurate port/starboard information regarding the colours and matching them up to the individual disruptive pattern of each ship, even though i have all the A Raven books on RN camouflage and ensign 1 i am still struggling with lack of clear pictures that would easily help me produce the camouflage.
If only there was a book or prints that showed each KGV class ship in its own disruptive pattern and the colours needed to produce the design my life would be a lot easier I do have plenty of info regarding Pow, Anson and Howe its just i cant distinguish the colours
!) In order to produce Anson, Howe, DOY for build accuracy would you guys recommend the tamiya POW or KGV model?
2) Could anyone point me in the right direction regarding acurate port/starboard pictures for KGV DOY ANSON HOWE and POW in disruptive camouflage and help identify the colours needed?
Any help would be greatly appreciated and bring to an end hours of despair regrding this subject.
Regards Alan

[JCRAY]

Alan, Warship III (Naval Institute Press) contains a extensive study of the KGV class by Dumas. It would be a good place to start. I don't think it's infallible but well worth a look.
hth

[Redwhiteandblue]

On checking all my information and pictures i feel able to produce POW and KGV in disruptive patterns.
Could anyone help me identify the colours regarding pictures of HMS Anson, in A Raven ensign 1 port side bow area is it B5 then B6 with upper section being 507c? and is the dark camo areas MS1?, on the starboard side now it becomes more confusing due to it being a black and white image from bow to stern is it B6 MS1 B6 MS1 507C and B5?
Also there is a starboard image of DOY port side being identical i am assuming the white areas are 507c dark areas possibly MS1 but the areas shaded grey/green could this be 507b?
In the picture gallery on modelwarships there is a fantastic build 1/350 HMS Howe in her disruptive pattern but no information on colours i may be wrong i will have to double check. On the build of this superb model the bridge area appears white in areas or could this be 507c? also there are areas of blue could this be wems dark blue or PB10 or is it actually B5?
Yet again if anyone can help me work out the colours port/starboard side of black and white pictures of HMS Howe in Ensign 1 it would be greatly appreciated. Regards Alan

[John Snyder]

No PB.10--that was strictly a submarine color used on RN subs in the Med.

[EJFoeth]

Indeed. Dumas erroneously puts it in several of his camouflage patterns for the KGVs making the total suspect.

[John Snyder]

BS Press makes the same error in the Profile Morskie series.

[Redwhiteandblue]

Thanks John(wem) I am ok with all i need to produce POW and KGV but am still unsure on matching up the wem paints i need to produce the camo patterns for DOY ANSON and HOWE there are times like this when the urge to light up have a beer and say to hell with it paint them all grey seem such an easier option!! Regards Alan

[EJFoeth]

I'd start with Raven's Camouflage Volume II, showing the sceme for HMSs KGV, Howe and Anson using 705a, B5, B6 and 507c. The colour footage matches quite nicely

[Redwhiteandblue]

EJFoeth....Thank you for the above, that has helped clarify the information i have on HMS Howe, Anson and KGV and i now feel i have enough available information in order to build this class of battleship as well as Pow.Thanks to JCRAY and John@WEM for your posts and helping with additional information.
Just a couple of questions i have remaining that i hope members can help me with are as follows.......
1) HMS DOY did she at any point have a disruptive pattern similar to KGV, Howe and Anson? looking at whats available on the internet there are a number of models such as Revells 1/1200 that clearly show her in a similar disruptive pattern as Howe, Anson and KGV. According to the information i have DOY had a disruptive pattern that was unique to herself (A Raven Ensign 1) and this was later replaced by a standard overall admiralty grey could any members clarify the above question and the following...In A Raven Ensign 1 DOY is shown in her unique disruptive pattern i believe to be Wem colours 507A possibly 507C there is a 3rd colour could this possibly be B5?
2) On all 5 of the KGV class was the top surface of main gun 14" turrets painted 507A?

[EJFoeth]

1) Never trust the colours or scheme of any model kit
2) Probably not; for HMS PoW the turret tops we most likely MS1 as 507A was not used in the colour scheme.

[Redwhiteandblue]

Thanks EJFoeth that info has been noted so its MS1 for POW and the others i will do 507a, i have info regarding suttle changes regarding armament plans of each KGV and other slight differences to appearance so feel i am well on my way to being able to do all 5 in 1/350 scale. Regards Alan

[malwright]

1) Never trust the colours or scheme of any model kit
2) Probably not; for HMS PoW the turret tops we most likely MS1 as 507A was not used in the colour scheme.

It is also possibly unwise to trust the complete accuracy of shade for any ship. Those painted in a dockyard are more likely to be reliable. But those painted by the crew are subject to the TLAR rule. (That looks about right). The crew of smaller ships in particular have less people to call on. When they returned to harbour after a period at sea, it was custom for half the crew to go on leave and and the remaining half to carry out repairs and touch ups etc. Then when the others came back, the crew swapped over.

Admittedly the KGV class and other large ships had more chance to be correctly painted to shade. But in my five decades of collecting data the most common statements were, that the crew were tired....downright exhausted...when they returned to harbour from many missions. The group staying aboard mixed the paint for the second half on leave, to apply when they returned. Inevitably the paint was mixed by tired men, who frankly didnt want to be doing that anyway, and therefore TLAR was the usual thing. That explains subtle differences in many ships. They were not PLANNED subtle differences. They happened because of the TLAR rule.

Even peacetime veterans have mentioned seeing ships supposedly painted with the same paint, that still looked slightly different. So we should not be surprised that would happen under the pressure of war.